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How would you mount this???

Discussion in 'General Signmaking Topics' started by filteredsoul, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. filteredsoul

    filteredsoul Large Format Graphics

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    I have many signs to make that will be made up of laminated vinyl on 1/8 inch pvc.
    These signs will be going on painted cinder block walls, painted drywall, unfinished concrete and wood.
    In the past, I've used VHB tape, but all over town my signs are failing. The tape is stuck firmly to the wall, but it's releasing from the PVC.
    We've started using "Iron Grip" silicone adhesive, but I think we're going to switch to Lexel based on all the users here.
    Main question:
    Is a combination of Lexel and VHB (to hold it in place while the silicone cures) a good choice for painted cinder block, painted drywall, unfinished concrete, etc? I'm worried about when they want to change the signs or take them down... what kind of damage or clean up will the Lexel make?

    Or maybe this... what is an alternative to 1/8 inch PVC that I could use for these signs? Ultraboard? I need something weather-proof...
     
    Tags:
  2. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

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    I would use the VHB with Lexel. And yes it can damage the wall, but so could what you were already doing. An alternative material would be 3mm ACM
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. ams

    ams Very Active Member

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    VHB does not stick well to PVC at all.
     
  4. Rick

    Rick Certified Circle Designer

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    I would mechanically fasten a backer to the wall (usually an undersized backer)
    Then attach the sign to the backer (Lexel and VHB)

    It's easier to patch small holes than scraping off adhesive...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    First of all........ who in their right mind would use pvc outside ?? There's no good glue and tape combination for exterior installations. You need physical fasteners like mentioned and an exterior substrate.
     
  6. visual800

    visual800 Very Active Member

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    you are using 1/8" pvc outside? why. you might want to recthink that and use maxmetal, might last longer.

    howeve if you must, clean pvc with alcohol and the apply vhb, never had issues with it not sticking. if we are siliconing pvc we always use a 2 part epoxy primer on back of pvc
     
  7. filteredsoul

    filteredsoul Large Format Graphics

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    Oct 30, 2009
    Asheville, NC
    No, it's nothing outside... we are doing TONS of work for a large college. Some of it is for their offices, some is in the arena, in hallways, etc. The outside stuff is made up of other substrates. These are all indoor installs, but every possible environment you can imagine... indoor where the pool is (extremely humid), in locker rooms (steam from showers... again, hot and humid), etc.

    The other places these signs are failing are all indoor also.

    For a while, a nice, small, quick PVC sign mounted with VHB was a great solution for us so we used it all the time... not knowing that over the course of a few months the PVC would "release" itself from the VHB.

    So, now I'm thinking of all the vendors (like Gemini) who use a double-sided tape on the back of their letters... do they have this problem? What do they use? Does 3M or any other tape manufacturer have a tape specifically for the chemical makeup of PVC?
     
  8. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Active Member

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    3M 4941 VHB tape, but as someone mentioned, a backer mechanically fastened first.
     
  9. Marlene

    Marlene Major Contributor

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    we also make 3mm PVC signs for large local college and have not had any issues with the 3M tape coming off from the back of the signs. check with 3M for which tape works best but as Johnny Best recommended the 4941 works with plastics. also our ADA signs are backed with PVC and are double faced taped with no issues. what version of VHB tape are you using?
     
  10. Enola

    Enola Member

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    3m 5952 is comparable to the 4941 on most surfaces, but it sticks better to plastics.
    I had a similar project and contacted them for advice.

    5952 black
     
  11. Marlene

    Marlene Major Contributor

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    when I was checking tapes, I found this product that might help. it's an extra step but it might help
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Okay, I got the impression most of these were outdoors and some indoors. We do a ton of these signs and all of them basically under controlled environments. We use a combination of MS-35 or 75-AM and a VHB designated for PVC to various substrates. The tape should be an acrylic foam tape. Either glue will set up in about 5 minutes. The tape keeps them in place, but also helps against fatigue.

    Originally, we only used the tape, but after doing literally 100's of these signs, 2 fell down. Our cost, of course to fix and when you hafta travel out of state to fix a 3 minute problem, we decided to add the AM or MS and not one has fallen since and we're well into about 4,500 of this sign alone. We've used this same process in other venues without any problems. These adhesives and tapes are also compatible using outdoor in any climate conditions.... cold, heat, wet..... whatever.
     
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