HP L25500 Laminating Problems

[robracer]

Have just installed a 60" L25500 & as soon as we go to laminate any SAV it fails, seems the vinyl does not like the heat (or possibly the backing sheet).
We have tried MD5, Mactac & Avery vinyls & they all do the same... we get wrinkles after a foot of laminating, I did a 12' print on the Mimaki & ran that through... it was perfect, so the problem is definently heat.
We have dropped the curing temp from 110 to 95, & anything below that & it does not cure so we cant go any lower.
We are running a cold laminator.
Anyone have any Ideas

 

[J Hill Designs]

wait a bit for the sav to cool down?

 

[robracer]

wait a bit for the sav to cool down?

it is being laminated a few hours later, seems either the SAV or the backing sheet is distorting when being printed, but it looks flat off the roll.

 

[WrapperX]

Is this a recent issue? Is it a new laminator? Maybe you have uneven pressure on your laminator.

Is it only on prints off the HP?

 

[smdgrfx]

I ran a 15 ft. print on 3M IJ35 and a 10 ft. print on some Oracal 3640M with my L25500. Laminated both with Oracal 215G and kiss cut through the plotter. No problems on either one. Did not adjust any heat settings whatsoever. I used an Oracal profile for both. Maybe too much drag on your laminator? I had that problem a couple of weeks back with some 3M 8518 lam. Couldn't get through 10 ft. without having a problem. But that was on prints from my Mimaki JV3.

 

[robracer]

Is this a recent issue? Is it a new laminator? Maybe you have uneven pressure on your laminator.

Is it only on prints off the HP?

Yeah as stated other prints are fine its just the HP ones ..... laminator is a few years old & works perfectly until it is fed latex prints.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

What kind of laminator? We use a SEAL and it has a magic substrate smoothing bar that prevents wrinkles even on warped prints. Add Glass tape to the bottom of the bar and everything just glides through.

 

[jens]

Maybe your media gets deformed by the l25500 ? high curing. even the minimal wrinkle will show up when laminating

 

[MachServTech]

What are the specs on the laminate you are using? What model laminator?

 

[Aklaim]

I'm using a L25500 with a Seal Image 600 and have ZERO problems. We haven't adjusted any heat settings and everything we print laminates perfectly. If something does get messed up, its always operator error like not webbing the lam correctly or not having the material under enough tension or having the material straight in the nip.

 

[RobbyMac]

We laminate with an orca64 without issue. However our laminate operator likes it if the cores are wound tight, long runs don't 'walk'. Both our jv33 and the hp take up systems never wind the cores tight enough for him.

But as far as wrinkling is concerned? Not had it happen (we've lammed immediately and plenty of time afterwards). With all of the other problems we've had with our hp, It's a wonder an issue like yours hasn't happened to us... but so far it has taken laminate just fine.

 

[signswi]

Robby,
If you wouldn't mind messaging me the other issues you've had I'd appreciate it, considering buying a L25500.

 

[RobbyMac]

msg'd

 

[Typestries]

Odd issue you are having. We feed roll after roll or latex prints through our laminator, no problem at all. combos include 3651 and 210, oracal floor with matching floor lam, 3551RA with 210 and 180cv3 with 8518 and or 8519. Odd thing is, we think it lams up BETTER than the solvent prints.

About the only thing we cant get to work is arlon and ultraflexx smooth blockout, but we're not the only ones. Oddly enough the LG stuff works just fine.

are you heat assisting at all when laming?

 

[Desert_Signs]

We've been running a L25500 since October '09. Never had any of the issues you're describing. We use a Seal 62 Pro C. Laminated just about everything. Oracal, Moncor, 3M, Arlon, poster paper, window perf, floor vinyl, static cling, etc. Doesn't matter how hot or cool the curing temp is.

 

[cdiesel]

We printed a few rolls of Oracal 3621 (water based adhesive) the other day, and it looked like the backing paper was wrinkled after printing. We ONLY saw it with this product, and only on a couple of the rolls--I think we printed six.

Are the products you're experiencing this with water based SAV?

Also, we noticed the wrinkles in the backing paper *before* laminating.

 

[robracer]

Sorry for the late reply, thanks all for the comments & info, we are using a cheap laminator so its cold laminating with just 2 rollers ..... stock is fed directly into the rollers under no tension. I have another supplier that has tried my printed vinyl & had the same result, he is using a $30K laminator & yet as soon as we put through a solvent print.... perfect!
I am still doing tests & the thicker vinyl such as 3M reflective is fine & so is the Avery Calendered matt vinyl which is thicker than usual, I am running them at 90 deg cure temp which seems ok & the print is drying, I am also using their specific profiles just knocking down the cure temp from the settings.
So week one has had its ups & downs .... we went through 190 feet of vinyl & at least 3/4 of it was laminated so its not like we are not getting enough test pieces through, lets se what week 2 has in store for us.

 

[morganq]

Hi from Sydney Rob,

When you go to laminate are you feeding sheets of vinyl or from a core?
Have you tried unwrapping a few metres and inspecting the backing paper, does it have any cockling or visible warping. How many micron are the vinyls and laminates you are using??

I have found on some very cheaps vinyls that the backing paper will buckle or warp but I still dont have any issues laminating these prints.

Out of curiosity what rip are you running for the L25500??

 

[robracer]

Hi from Sydney Rob,

When you go to laminate are you feeding sheets of vinyl or from a core?
Have you tried unwrapping a few metres and inspecting the backing paper, does it have any cockling or visible warping. How many micron are the vinyls and laminates you are using??

I have found on some very cheaps vinyls that the backing paper will buckle or warp but I still dont have any issues laminating these prints.

Out of curiosity what rip are you running for the L25500??

Laminating from the roll, when laying the print flat on glass it has a slight ripple, if we use stock with a thicker backing sheet the problem is not as bad.
Problem stock is MD5 with matching MD5 clear as the laminate, works perfect with solvent & both have identical shrink rate, we have been using this stock for 4 years & dont really want to change.

Rip is Colorgate latest version

 

[MIMO]

Hey Rob,

Sorry I've got nothing new to add, but I'll give you what has worked for me.

Orocal AV (3621, 3620, 3641) lam with Orocal 210. Usage has been window graphics. Using the HP generic PSA settings on the L25500, Onyx rip. Have also used the clear orocal (3620) as a facing lam on the 3621 white to do front adhesive decals.

I have a Royal dual hot lam, and add just a bit of heat when I'm laminating (about 80 degrees) and a little bit tension, not much.

Hope there is something in there for you.