Hp L26500 (L260) and Phototex

[frojasferrari]

Ok, been having problems printing phototex with my latex since day 1. I still have a lot of phototex rolls but I want to get better at printing my wall murals.
The things is, it looks like the ink is not properly adhere to the phototex, I print, cut, and then lay on my cutting table to cut, but when you scrub de print with a white paper, the white paper ends with ink on it, ink from the print.(When installing is on your fingers)
Been printing a lot of things, vinyls, canvas, window perf, even bond paper, and phototex is the only one i have this problem.
Heres a video and a picture, so you can see i do not apply to much pressure on the print to get the white paper stained.
Video:
[video=youtube;hYrXoaEsEzw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYrXoaEsEzw[/video]

So.... its a temperature thing? (tried lots of combinations) Profile thing? (tried lots of profile, even done a special one for Phototex from scratch)
Anyone else having a similar problem?
Its not a big problem, from all the wall murals we have done, only two clients told us about having a problem with ink rubbing of the paper, but not a big deal for them (kind of worrying for us), because we know the problem is there. What do you guys think?
I was having problems cutting the overlaps a while ago, since then we simply dont cut the overlaps, but the problemas I was having was that when you cut the overlap you get to see the cut, is not "invisible" as it should be or as it is with other media we use. I was thinking that maybe it has something to do with the ink not properly adhering to the media.

Any ideas?

 

[MikePro]

there are profiles for phototex on the 26500, make sure you have the proper media as there are different types for different inksets.

the textured surface will definitely allow for the ink to scratch/rub-off if you do not liquid laminate it, which is also an issue when you go to trim... as the blade itself actually scratches the ink off your trimmed edge & leaves a white line.

 

[dypinc]

Are you using the S version of Phototex?

Be careful not to over-ink when you are making you Linearization-Ink limit-profiles. I have noticed those kinds of issues with Phototex if you throw too much ink at it.

 

[frojasferrari]

Phototex S (green tape)

Can I use the embedded i1 on the l260 to do the ink limit linearization? I´m using caldera

 

[dypinc]

Total ink limits are usually something you have to visually do. Not sure there are any RIPs that can really do this using a spectro. Colortools in Fiery XF has a routine to do this but you have got to be close in your initial settings for it to work, but it has no way to take into account the characteristics of the media. And it does take some trial and error.

 

[Bly]

Ink restrictions are automated in Onyx.
Print a swatch, read it with a spectro then move onto the next step.

 

[Kwiksigns]

I installed some huge murals printed by another company... I can tell you they did not laminate and they had the same issue. My soft squeegee was red by the end of the day, along with my fingertips. Even though it was rubbing off... It didn't scratch or reveal the white. I told the print company and they really didnt care. They said it happens. But they might not have cared because they also paid us to remove them a year later

 

[MikePro]

setting ink limits is not automated, but rather, it is a step in an automated process when profiling your media on the 26500.
this is the part where you need to personally examine the printed swatches and tell the program, yourself, what value is "too much ink" so that it knows not to attempt to print beyond that level of saturation:
(explained below, quoted from OnyxTalk forums.... but the process of examination/declaring values can be applied to whatever rip software you're profiling your media through. Caldera, Flexi, whatever Rip allows you to profile your own media)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a difficult thing to explain unless you are looking at the swatch.

Run your eyes from light to dark (left to right). If the colours are all dry and even and simply get darker right up to the end it is said that you have no "artifacts" to deal with.

In this case you can simply set your limits when the colours have gone to a solid black. This normally happens for the single colours around 2.2 and the combinations at around 3 to 3.3.

Setting them any more than this is simply a waste of ink.

However often you will see a change in the patches as you scan the swatch from left to right. These changes are called artifacts and can be varied.

For example, they might not dry beyond a certain point and thus you would call your limits at the last dry patch - if you don't your final profile might produce wet prints with the current settings.

You can of course go back and raise the heater temps, slow the print speed etc - this might push the drying point up and allow you more darker colours within your limit, increasing gamut.

Artifacting includes other things as well - you might get shadows along the edge of the patches "picture framing" caused by too much ink drying unevenly from the outside into the centre of the patch.

You can see matting (especially in black) where the level of ink is too high to form a good gloss.

Sometimes you get "coalescence" which looks like a coarse, oily dot patten where the high ink level has not been given time to sink into the media / coating properly.

Basically any noticeable change in the look of the patches which you don't want to see in the final image - that is where you should be limiting.

Once you limit at a point, you are often restricting gamut to a certain extent (usually in the darker RGBs). Sometimes gamut is more important than the artifact you see and thus the limit is set higher than you would otherwise choose - it's your decision.

Problems occur when you are forced to set a limit at a low level due to bad artifacting - for example your patches simply wont dry (assuming you've upped the heaters, slowed the printer etc) unless you limit all of them to something under 2.5

You have two options. either declare this media as incompatible - sometimes the ink/media/printer comination just isn't a good match.

Or you can set the limits at this low level and accept your profile will never be a great one.

Two points to note here - you can use Black Ink Compensation to prevent the inevitable "capping" that will occur with such low limits.

Capping is where you get a strange grey tone amongst your shadows in a print - the colour gets deeper but just before going to black you have a grey band.

This "missing" shadow tone is the gap between the point where you have limited the ink and the point where the black is brought in.

This gap can be filled with black so that in the final print it appears to be normal. The B.I.C setting replaces these missing colour tones with black - the lower the ink limit, the higher the B.I.C needs to be from 1 to 5.

The other point, and one which took me some time to realise, is that actually the icc will do a good job of trying to fill in the missing shadow colour tones for you. Even though you may have to set low limits - say 2.4 for the RGB you think that you will now lose every colour after that point from your gamut and your profile will have no darker colours at all.

Just continue and build an icc - look at the patches you are reading - you will see many of the tones you thought you had lost in the limiting process. The icc is using other combinations of CMYK to achieve an acceptable result. It is often worth perservering and building an icc profile even if you have set low limits to get a troublesome media profiled (especially if someone is paying you to do it!)

However, hopefully you have a "good" media and can set the limits to somewhere near the norm - 2.2 for the CMY and 2.8-3.0 for the RGBK. At these settings you are usually good to go.

Ink Limits are one of those "black art" things where everyone has their own interpretations and views - these are just mine from experience & Onyx's training so others might have more advice that will help.

Good luck!

 

[Bly]

Well you can do it like that if you prefer. I prefer to just print & scan.

ONYX Profile Generator Version X10 introduces the first and only automated color media profiling process.
This includes a patented, fully-automated ink restriction technology for fast profiling and maximum control of ink costs.
For the first time, shops can now build media profiles in minutes instead of hours.
For those who prefer to fine-tune their output color, exclusive “Black Diamond” tools are available for greater control over output speed and quality.

http://www.myprintresource.com/prod...erator-module-for-productionhouse-version-x10