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Discussion HP Latex 335 Purchase
- Thread starter Roto
- Start date
I was about to buy a HP Latex Print & Cut solution 335 and I ordered it before cancelling the deal. HP Latex have certainly conquered the market these last years pushing aside many eco-solvent brands and models for the benefits and advantages the Latex represent.
There are plenty threads here on the forum and also documentations you can download from HP but you should consider many things before buying a wide format printer whether was a Latex or an eco-solvent.
The advantages of the Latex is without doubt the versatility and the ability to print on a large types of medias. From paper, vinyl, banner to canvas, wallcovering and textile. The Latex will deliver high quality prints on different materials and you don't have to worry about the shrinkle and the ink scratching.
Like for any products the Latex has also cons. HP Latex technology uses thermal heads which last much shorter than eco-solvent head. You should be ready to change many times the printheads (4) and the cartridges (7). It depends on the use and the printing volume.
I've asked many people who own HP Latex printers, most of them were happy at the beginning but they have issues over the time like jamming, colors inconsistency and high ink consumption due the ink saturation defined by each media profile.
Other users will tell you the opposite and advice you to go with Latex but you should ask for samples and demos.
There are plenty threads here on the forum and also documentations you can download from HP but you should consider many things before buying a wide format printer whether was a Latex or an eco-solvent.
The advantages of the Latex is without doubt the versatility and the ability to print on a large types of medias. From paper, vinyl, banner to canvas, wallcovering and textile. The Latex will deliver high quality prints on different materials and you don't have to worry about the shrinkle and the ink scratching.
Like for any products the Latex has also cons. HP Latex technology uses thermal heads which last much shorter than eco-solvent head. You should be ready to change many times the printheads (4) and the cartridges (7). It depends on the use and the printing volume.
I've asked many people who own HP Latex printers, most of them were happy at the beginning but they have issues over the time like jamming, colors inconsistency and high ink consumption due the ink saturation defined by each media profile.
Other users will tell you the opposite and advice you to go with Latex but you should ask for samples and demos.
ddarlak
Go Bills!
-Fake News-
first off, there are 6 printheads, they are about 1/10 the the cost of a solvent head and it takes about 3 minutes to change one.
7 cartridges? why does that matter if your changing cartridges that means your using ink which means your making money....
I was looking at the 335 but opted for the 315, it has worked well for me.
I have printed 60k sq feet in the last year, 35 carts of ink and have never changed the printheads and they are 100% perfect.
high ink consumption? - no
jamming? - 99% user error
ink saturation???? - 110% user error
you probably shouldn't advise someone on a product you know nothing about.
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4signsandbanners
New Member
I own an HP Latex 310 printed and LOVE IT!! The quality is excellent, it is virtually maintenance free and we print on adhesive vinyl, poster paper, vinyl banner, backlit substrate and canvas and everything comes out beautiful. I have had to change out print heads from time to time but they are much more affordable than most print heads. Also, I have had great phone-in technical help from HP if I ever run into a print issue and it is always resolved via phone.
Yeah you're right about the number of printheads on HP Latex I forgot that each printhead comes double and includes 2 colors. The 7 cartridges (6 colors + 1 optimizer) contain each one 770ml (+15ml as stockpile). Most printing profiles uses high ink saturation (8,10, 12 passes) and the HP calculator doesn't lie.
During a printing expo I've printed same works on a HP Latex, a Mimaki and an Epson and I've asked the operators for inks consumption (per ml). The highest one was that of the HP Latex.
I still believe the HP Latex are really nice and amazing printers but they are not perfect and suited for everyone. For the jams ask everyone owning a Latex and they will tell you they had occasionally jams. Most are user and manipulation errors but they became a normal issue like for jams on MFP and press printers.
It's a question of satisfaction and also profitability. You can't invest $20k in a printer and thousands on printheads and cartridges every 2-3 months. They are certainly cheaper compared to eco-solvent but they last much shorter something known and certified by HP itself.
I've spent more than 8 years working in different printshops so I have an idea on wide format printers. The durability and efficiency depend on maintenance, picking good medias and choosing the right settings in the RIP (medias type, ICC profiles, calibration...).
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The HP Latex series is the best option on the market for the small roll-to-roll printers in my eyes. The price of the units makes it easy to get your money back quickly. It also allows you to add more in the future without the high cost that the other brands will be charging. If you like to upgrade... this is your machine for sure. I don't plan on owning an HP printer past 7 years at the most. We are in the business of high quality prints and unless it's a flatbed... it's ready to be upgraded after 5 years. Updating to me means faster prints with better print quality, which if we are doing our jobs means more money in our pockets.
It's easy to profile new media.
It's easy to understand how to run the user interface on the printer.
It's great for entry level sign people or even the largest of sign companies. Not many units can be great for both sizes.
This HP 365 printer is not ideal for...(In My Eyes)
Quick one off print runs. It will eat up about 1-2 feet of media and the loading in the front is not hard it takes more time than walking to the back of another brand and sliding the media into place.
Printing on pop-up banner media has not been good for my standards. No biggie... we UV print them for the extra scratch resistance.
Small width banner rolls. I have to use the take up reel to ensure it does not get jammed. Otherwise I feel it's best to baby sit and hold the edges on small banners. When we print on small banner widths we nest the jobs so we make a long run using the take up reel. We printed 11 rolls of 38" banner media the first week we installed the printer. It printed roll to roll without any issues. But one-offs on small banners are not ideal using the banner media we were using at the time. We have switched to Arlon scrim and we have not had the same issues from the small roll widths.
This HP 365 printer is ideal for...(In My Eyes)
High quality prints from 6pass+ that makes your customers smile. We print on PhotoTex, Scrim & Mesh Banners, and many different vinyls for decals to wraps. It's hard to even see the fire pattern on prints. It just looks like it's screen printed with but with all the colors and shapes having fine edges.
Printing entire rolls without issues. You can use the take-up reel or let it drop to the floor. The larger the media width the less of a chance of having a head strike from not using the take-up system.
Changing inks... while it's printing (it will pause) or before it starts a print project.
Changing Heads & Maintenance Cartridges... super easy!
Profiling New Media Quickly... I was making them within minutes of hitting the ground on the machine. Very simple process and automated to the point that it barely needs you to help process the proper selections.
...
If you are changing heads... you're making money.
If you are using inks... you're making money.
If you are getting head strikes... it's user error in most cases. Sure there are some WTH moments, but that is with any printer, even the Vutek's & Durst have there fair share of issues.
You will need to have some similar profiles for heavy saturated colors or turn up your heat setting on banners. When we switched to Arlon banner media the heat adjustments were reduced on having two profiles. The issues you will have will be easy to help reduce in the future after spending time printing enough media.
I was a long time Roland supporter for the small roll-to-roll printers. No way I could go back to a solvent or eco-solvent ink printer for our small roll-to-roll printer with our current production needs.
When we print our wall wraps on phototex... Let's just say we bring life to the walls. No fire pattern... just art on a wall that was printed on our latex series printer. We constantly are told by our clients about how impressive our prints look on their walls.
I hope the above helps anyone looking into this printer. You will find many ways to make this printer a good earner for your company.
It's easy to profile new media.
It's easy to understand how to run the user interface on the printer.
It's great for entry level sign people or even the largest of sign companies. Not many units can be great for both sizes.
This HP 365 printer is not ideal for...(In My Eyes)
Quick one off print runs. It will eat up about 1-2 feet of media and the loading in the front is not hard it takes more time than walking to the back of another brand and sliding the media into place.
Printing on pop-up banner media has not been good for my standards. No biggie... we UV print them for the extra scratch resistance.
Small width banner rolls. I have to use the take up reel to ensure it does not get jammed. Otherwise I feel it's best to baby sit and hold the edges on small banners. When we print on small banner widths we nest the jobs so we make a long run using the take up reel. We printed 11 rolls of 38" banner media the first week we installed the printer. It printed roll to roll without any issues. But one-offs on small banners are not ideal using the banner media we were using at the time. We have switched to Arlon scrim and we have not had the same issues from the small roll widths.
This HP 365 printer is ideal for...(In My Eyes)
High quality prints from 6pass+ that makes your customers smile. We print on PhotoTex, Scrim & Mesh Banners, and many different vinyls for decals to wraps. It's hard to even see the fire pattern on prints. It just looks like it's screen printed with but with all the colors and shapes having fine edges.
Printing entire rolls without issues. You can use the take-up reel or let it drop to the floor. The larger the media width the less of a chance of having a head strike from not using the take-up system.
Changing inks... while it's printing (it will pause) or before it starts a print project.
Changing Heads & Maintenance Cartridges... super easy!
Profiling New Media Quickly... I was making them within minutes of hitting the ground on the machine. Very simple process and automated to the point that it barely needs you to help process the proper selections.
...
If you are changing heads... you're making money.
If you are using inks... you're making money.
If you are getting head strikes... it's user error in most cases. Sure there are some WTH moments, but that is with any printer, even the Vutek's & Durst have there fair share of issues.
You will need to have some similar profiles for heavy saturated colors or turn up your heat setting on banners. When we switched to Arlon banner media the heat adjustments were reduced on having two profiles. The issues you will have will be easy to help reduce in the future after spending time printing enough media.
I was a long time Roland supporter for the small roll-to-roll printers. No way I could go back to a solvent or eco-solvent ink printer for our small roll-to-roll printer with our current production needs.
When we print our wall wraps on phototex... Let's just say we bring life to the walls. No fire pattern... just art on a wall that was printed on our latex series printer. We constantly are told by our clients about how impressive our prints look on their walls.
I hope the above helps anyone looking into this printer. You will find many ways to make this printer a good earner for your company.
ddarlak
Go Bills!
8 whole years...
I can remember waiting for digital printers to enter the sign industry, i have some time in too.
your last post sounded more intelligent than your first, but sadly you still shouldn't be advising on someone who is asking about an HP since you clearly don't know jack about them...
using one at an expo qualifies you to say you have used one for a few minutes....
I can remember waiting for digital printers to enter the sign industry, i have some time in too.
your last post sounded more intelligent than your first, but sadly you still shouldn't be advising on someone who is asking about an HP since you clearly don't know jack about them...
using one at an expo qualifies you to say you have used one for a few minutes....
First... HP print heads are not 1/6 the cost of solvent. Our Seiko print heads cost $5,000 installed. Our Latex printheads are $130. So I can get 38.5 print heads for the price of one... and it takes all but 30 seconds to pop it in and get back on our feet once the quality degrades.
If you're a veteran who's been printing for 8+ years, you may not care. But if you're new to printing,.. you're bound to get head strikes. Even if you do everything perfectly, Banners tend to bunch up and rub... Certain reflectives do... Etc. So even in perfect conditions, your heads aren't going to last forever. Our solvent dealer said the average was 5 years, but he's seen them go up to 8. So.. lets do the math. 8 heads at 5K... that's 35K(We were offered a discount since it was in bulk!) per 5, or 8 years.
$583 per month at 5 years, $364 per month at 8 years.
Latex is about 6 cents a sqft for head use... So you need to run 9715 SQFT (15 full rolls of 54") or 6000 SQFT best case to break even just on head cost per month. When you get to that volume, I doubt Solvent heads will last 5-8 years. A lot of shops are into that volume...So for head cost alone, maybe for them solvent makes sense. Throwing out all the other benefits, at least.
I haven't done the cost estimates. But ink/maintenance/heads are roughly equivalent, or negligibly different cost wise comparing Latex / Solvent. yes... you can saturate your prints, drop 200% ink onto it... Thats a feature to get more vibrant / bright colors, it doesn't mean everything you print will use more ink. 90% of what we run is set to 80% ink. Reflectives like EGP / DG for road signs uses 140ish%. But solvents can't even print on them, so it's comparing apples to oranges.
media jams... I've been using a Latex 110 for a few years in my house, Maybe a jam here or there when trying to save media. My shop saw the quality, loved the prints and decided to ditch the Solvent for a Latex and bought a 560. I had head so many media jams on that thing and I couldn't figure out why... Then I noticed one of the vinyls I printed on seperated from the liner and left some glue on the heater... So everytime the media got to it, it'd stick and cause a jam. I've cleaned all the glue out now... and no jams at all. I wish I could get into the heater elements better to clean it properly, but I still consider it user error / stupidity.
I use Latex, Solvent, UV, Thermal, screen printing... They all have their uses. My favorite is Latex... It seems like it's Jack of all trades. But they all have their places, and honestly you can't go wrong with any of them. You just need to find whats best for your shop, and what you do.
The onlything I hate about Latex is how it can print on so many materials... My work load has doubled because we're screen printing less and less. We've stopped using our graphtec for 90% of low quantity EGP/DG signs also... So we're saving tons on material that way. Our 560 has paid for itself 5x over in the 2 months we've had it.
If you're a veteran who's been printing for 8+ years, you may not care. But if you're new to printing,.. you're bound to get head strikes. Even if you do everything perfectly, Banners tend to bunch up and rub... Certain reflectives do... Etc. So even in perfect conditions, your heads aren't going to last forever. Our solvent dealer said the average was 5 years, but he's seen them go up to 8. So.. lets do the math. 8 heads at 5K... that's 35K(We were offered a discount since it was in bulk!) per 5, or 8 years.
$583 per month at 5 years, $364 per month at 8 years.
Latex is about 6 cents a sqft for head use... So you need to run 9715 SQFT (15 full rolls of 54") or 6000 SQFT best case to break even just on head cost per month. When you get to that volume, I doubt Solvent heads will last 5-8 years. A lot of shops are into that volume...So for head cost alone, maybe for them solvent makes sense. Throwing out all the other benefits, at least.
I haven't done the cost estimates. But ink/maintenance/heads are roughly equivalent, or negligibly different cost wise comparing Latex / Solvent. yes... you can saturate your prints, drop 200% ink onto it... Thats a feature to get more vibrant / bright colors, it doesn't mean everything you print will use more ink. 90% of what we run is set to 80% ink. Reflectives like EGP / DG for road signs uses 140ish%. But solvents can't even print on them, so it's comparing apples to oranges.
media jams... I've been using a Latex 110 for a few years in my house, Maybe a jam here or there when trying to save media. My shop saw the quality, loved the prints and decided to ditch the Solvent for a Latex and bought a 560. I had head so many media jams on that thing and I couldn't figure out why... Then I noticed one of the vinyls I printed on seperated from the liner and left some glue on the heater... So everytime the media got to it, it'd stick and cause a jam. I've cleaned all the glue out now... and no jams at all. I wish I could get into the heater elements better to clean it properly, but I still consider it user error / stupidity.
I use Latex, Solvent, UV, Thermal, screen printing... They all have their uses. My favorite is Latex... It seems like it's Jack of all trades. But they all have their places, and honestly you can't go wrong with any of them. You just need to find whats best for your shop, and what you do.
The onlything I hate about Latex is how it can print on so many materials... My work load has doubled because we're screen printing less and less. We've stopped using our graphtec for 90% of low quantity EGP/DG signs also... So we're saving tons on material that way. Our 560 has paid for itself 5x over in the 2 months we've had it.
Carlos Valencia
New Member
We have sold many of the Hp 335 units. They are a client favorite along with the 365. The ink dries quick. The image is immediately available for use. It is 64" wide capable. Inks and printheads are economical and easy to replace. They are part of Hp's smart series so they do much of the maintenance on their own. They come with free delivery, free install, and free day of training along with free supplies from us this month. I wish I could tell you some negatives but we really cant. Hp has a great solution with their Hp latex technology. thx Plottermaster
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
Your view of HP Latex reality is totally skewed. I have 3 Latexes that run daily, my 2 570's are 15 months old and each of them have 186,000sqft through them. I have replaced heads twice in each machine and inks are far cheaper and lower consumption than eco solvent machines. I have my actual print cost including heads and maintenance kits dialed down to $0.158/sqft on our built profiles for vinyls.
Jams happen on all machines, the HP jams are there due to their media tunnel system... feed the $1.25 worth of media out and charge the client to avoid all the jams.
ddarlak
Go Bills!
that is so true, but so hard to do, lol
i have a repeating job that uses 147.3' of a 50 yard roll.....I'm always trying to cheat the system when i have to start and stop in the middle but that's when you get bit in the a$$ by the dreaded JAM
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
We print hundreds of rolls end to end at 2 pass so I know the struggle... trying to get 147' from 150' rolls on these machines is an artform!
Have you guys ever tracked how many ft a roll actually is?
We've had some rolls that came up 5-10ft short. One time we printed a full roll... Started to laminate it and we had like 30 extrabft of laminate. We weren't keeping track of how much we printed, so not sure if they gave us extra laminate or screwed us on how much on the roll.. but I've always presumed the 150ft is an approximate.
We've had some rolls that came up 5-10ft short. One time we printed a full roll... Started to laminate it and we had like 30 extrabft of laminate. We weren't keeping track of how much we printed, so not sure if they gave us extra laminate or screwed us on how much on the roll.. but I've always presumed the 150ft is an approximate.
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
We have purchased over 700 rolls of Avery 2921EZ and printed them complete end to end and they are all within 1', typically over sized.
bannertime
Active Member
Man, you are just full of misinformation. It takes about 3-4 ink changes before needing to change the print heads, so if you're changing inks once a month and the print heads every three months(est $1200 a month), you should be bringing in about $22k minimum from that machine alone. That's a bare minimum! More likely it would be $40k to $50k a month. This based off our own numbers averaging 0.77ml per sqft of material run through the machine.
Jams are typically due to old or specialty materials that don't get pre-fed out the front of the machine.. We don't see jams with our two main materials 13oz Key Banner and Arlon 4600lx. Window perf and alumigraphics are another thing.
I'm not saying the HP latex is for everyone or even the best machine, but you really are misrepresenting the machine.
I wrote in previous threads the reasons that concluded me to pick the HP Latex Print & Cut solution 335 : The versatility, the ink resistance, the print quality and the consumables prices compared to eco-solvent. I can't judge a product based on what I saw in a print expo or some user feedbacks or reports. I totally agree with many owners on the fact that the Latex is the way to go especially when it comes to print on different medias the eco-solvent can't print.
I switched to the Epson SureColor S40600 for many reasons : The price (cheaper than the HP Latex 335), the built, the print quality and the ink prices. The printer delivers accurate prints and reaches 98% of Pantone Solid Coated gamut. The maintenance is certainly manual but don't take more than 5 minutes.
Epson is the only brand that can compete with the others knowing it uses its own components like printhead and inks. The others like Roland and Mutoh use Epson Dx printheads and can't stand against competitive brands like Epson and HP.
I like HP products especially PCs and I know they did many progress in few years by launching different products that are now their best sellers like Latex, Designjet, Indigo and Scitex. In a constant evolution industry like printing people built their choices on what they consider as productive and gainful. Not everyone prints 3-4 rolls per day to pay off in short time the printer price.
In the end everyone is free to make the choice he considers as right and I'll never advice people to purchase anything based on bad experiences or even manufacturer misinformation.
I switched to the Epson SureColor S40600 for many reasons : The price (cheaper than the HP Latex 335), the built, the print quality and the ink prices. The printer delivers accurate prints and reaches 98% of Pantone Solid Coated gamut. The maintenance is certainly manual but don't take more than 5 minutes.
Epson is the only brand that can compete with the others knowing it uses its own components like printhead and inks. The others like Roland and Mutoh use Epson Dx printheads and can't stand against competitive brands like Epson and HP.
I like HP products especially PCs and I know they did many progress in few years by launching different products that are now their best sellers like Latex, Designjet, Indigo and Scitex. In a constant evolution industry like printing people built their choices on what they consider as productive and gainful. Not everyone prints 3-4 rolls per day to pay off in short time the printer price.
In the end everyone is free to make the choice he considers as right and I'll never advice people to purchase anything based on bad experiences or even manufacturer misinformation.
Carlos Valencia
New Member
Hp latex is definitely the way to go. We sell hundreds yearly and many are eco solvent people trying to get out of those headaches and get in to Latex. The great benefits far outweigh the minimal issues. thx Plottermaster