Rant HP Latex 365 Frequent Head Crashes

[FusePrints]

Does anyone else, besides me, have frequent head crashes when you are first trying to print on Gloss Calendared vinyl? My seems to crash every time. Im printing on Oracal 3641 using HP's Oracal 3640G Profile. I have even left 20" or so on the front end to give it a little more weight. Ive had it happen a lot when I was using Avery vinyl so I switch to Oracal thinking it was a media issue? At a loss of words hear. For how many PROS this printer has, it has just as many CONS.

Thoughts?

 

[EffectiveCause]

Does anyone else, besides me, have frequent head crashes when you are first trying to print on Gloss Calendared vinyl? My seems to crash every time. Im printing on Oracal 3641 using HP's Oracal 3640G Profile. I have even left 20" or so on the front end to give it a little more weight. Ive had it happen a lot when I was using Avery vinyl so I switch to Oracal thinking it was a media issue? At a loss of words hear. For how many PROS this printer has, it has just as many CONS.

Thoughts?

Have you tried playing with the vacuum settings? I had this issue with Briteline Window Perf. It was a PITA. Luckily we only printed one or two window perfs a month. There wasn't really a true fix for it just had to mess with it until it decided to play nice.

 

[Dan360]

We only get head strikes on our 360 with certain banners and occasional paper. I'm not sure if I've ever had one on vinyl in the years we've had the printer. You may want to take a look at your profile, possibly the vacuum. Or maybe try the edge holders to see if they help.

 

[FusePrints]

Thanks for the feedback. I am so sick of profiling this machine. I am told by HP that if it isn't a material that is profiled and certified for their inks then they cant do anything for me basically. So, I brought in a material that was and you would think you wouldn't have to tweak the profile they created right? I have had it happen on all kinds of media as well not just the vinyl. Just venting everyone if seems like I spend 20 hours a week trouble shooting this printer for the past year I have had it. Onyx RIP (what I use) also has issues communicating with the printer. I have updated the rip, the printer firmware, uninstalled onyx, re-intsalled it. Installed a new network card in my computer, and bought all new CAT cables. LORD HELP ME!

 

[papabud]

profiles are set up in a lab under perfect conditions using a machine that runs perfect. so yes you will have to tweak all profiles to fit your machine and environment.
i normally just have to do minor adjustments like temps or vacuum
for paper i had to crank the vacuum way up.
you shouldnt have to spend 20 hours a week doing anything with your machine other than clicking print.
maybe i got lucky and my machine was built right. but i havent had any major issues from day one.
but i do keep it clean and well cared for.

 

[tdgraphics]

Are the head strikes because the material is wrinkling?

Do you leave the material in the machine when it is turned of or goes into sleep mode?

The reason I ask this is I had a similar situation happen to me on my Roland machine when I inadvertently left material that had been heated up on the machine as it was in use then after it went into sleep mode, cooled down. (pinch rollers down) When I woke the machine up again, and started to print the next job, I had a head strike because the material had wrinkled due to heating, cooling and heating again. I am not saying this is your problem, but if the material was inadvertently left on the machine, it could be.

Neil

 

[Dan360]

Head strikes should be a very rare occurrence. If it's happening a lot on various medias, you may have a bigger issue here with your machine. I would be tempted to have a tech come check it out.

The communication issue, are you connecting the computer directly to the printer or running through a network switch? There may be some network settings interfering between the two. Maybe poke around the networking tab on the web portal for the printer to see if everything looks ok.

Media that is rated for latex should be able to handle the heat and not warp enough to cause issues. That being said, I have had issues with banners and window perf after letting it sit overnight or over a weekend.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

Vinyl is one of the few materials we ever have head crashes on. Vacuum and take up real is how we have solved most of our head crashes. Put a leader on the core and then tape it to the edge of the vinyl. This way you don't have to waste a ton of extra material. This way you can start your prints with the machine working as intended.

 

[Niun]

Vacuum or heat are usually the culprits when we get a head crash on our 365. I think the only profiles I haven't had to tweak a bit are two 3M ones I use

 

[xkellyx]

Have you cleaned out the vacuume? Are the holes/fans clogged up?

 

[richsweeney]

I used to have a tons of crashes on my 360 running 15oz smooth scrim, until I installed the silicon blanket over the platen. Hp sent it out at no cost. I never have taken it off. The only time I get a crash like some one said above, is when you use pre heated material. I also use the end holders to avoid the crashes. I am assuming the crash starts at one end or the other.

 

[FusePrints]

Eveyone's feedback here has been great! Just a quick background on myself. I have been in the printing industry since 2010, so not too long, and have run Mutoh and Roland Eco-Sol Machines, Agfa Anapurna Flatbeds, CNC machines, Summa and Graphtech Cutters. I have had a decent amount of experience with Latex printers as well and prior to my purchase of the 365 I have operated the L26500, L28500, L360, LX600, LX850. I honestly don't recall this many head strikes on any of the other models. I will have to place a call with HP to have them come out and see what is up. They have already been here stating it was a common problem and they disassembled the front of the print and cleaned the impinging model, which didn't look all that clogged or dirty to me. They also installed a Pressure Sensor. The tech stated that the pressure sensor was installed on the 360 models but not on the 365s for some reason?

I do use the heat blanket but with regret. I always get warping of the material right down the middle of my prints caused from where the mats meet in the center. I wonder if they make one continuous blanket with no seams? Seems to me, they should have created the head guard as one mat to begin with as opposed to the two sections.

I'M NOT A FAN OF THE TAKE UP REEL. I do use it when I absolutely have to. I like the leader idea that would certainly help things. I have used wrap magnets to give the material a little weight as opposed to setting up the take up reel. It helps as well.

I also have issues when I try to automatically load substrates. They get caught on the platen lip right in the center of the machine where the feed rollers are. So I have given up on the load technique and manual load.

On certain prints that I do, that have a lot of dark saturated colors, I also see vertical banding which I would only describe as inconsistent curing. It's not hard edge banding per say but it looks as if there are 5-6 4" section across the heater that do not cure the ink. I had HP look at that and run test all to say the heaters are fine.

I fully understand that profiles are basically created in clean science labs with perfect scenarios, but when you take a base profile for a 15oz Smooth Banner and run it as suggested at 210 degrees and it head crashes and you take the heat down to 172 what do you do? The material I am referring to now is Key Banner 15oz Block out. I downloaded the profile from Grimco's site and just finally got it to run well using the heat mats but I I can stand how I get the ripple in the center of my prints as I described above. It's like there is a fix, but not a 100% good fix.

I have a hard time accepting all these tweaks, adjustments and the monkeying around you have to do with this machine, considering the overall amount of money that is spent on the machine, rip software, setup etc. I feel these things could have been tested further prior to releasing these printers. Instead of coming up with practical fixes they simply launch a new machine (500 series).

I mean sure they make bullet proof materials that work beautifully but the fact of the matter is you have to spend anywhere from $.80-$1.25 psf for those materials. I don't know about everyone else on here, but my client base does not want to pay anymore for their projects that are currently printed on material that are in the $.16-$.38 psf cost range.

I'm just frustrated all. Thanks for your feedback everyone and keep on trucking!

 

[Bly]

We only have major headstirke issues on certain (usually cheap) vinyls.
The liner seems to be especially sensitive to temperature change and will curl the edge as soon as it hits the cure zone.

 

[AKwrapguy]

So as far as head strikes go, for me they are few and far between. Mostly when dealing with 3M 7930, HIP or DG, I can usually avoid them with enough vacuum, lower heat settings and increase number of passes. As far as carriage strikes where I have to restart the machine are usually fixed with either adding a leader to the material and than tape to the take up reel, or just have it a bout 3/4 into the curing unit. Also found that if this is happening frequently than my heat is too high which is causing the material to curl up and sticking to the curing unit.

 

[AF]

I think HP gets the stock profiles from customers because if you dissect the profiles they are all made on different spectros and with wildly different philosophies. At least it used to be this way.

 

[dypinc]

I think HP gets the stock profiles from customers because if you dissect the profiles they are all made on different spectros and with wildly different philosophies. At least it used to be this way.

Here we go again, can't differante between Media Presets (this is what the HP literature calls it) and Output Profiles.

They are separate things but Output Profiles can be tied to the Media Presets in the printer. Output Profiles "they are all made on different spectros and with wildly different philosophies" have nothing to do with the Media Presets which control number of Passes, Ink Density, Heat, Vacuum, etc. all functions of the printer which here the wrong settings can contribute to head crashes along with how the media is actually loaded or the properties of the media as in too thin of a release liner or as in paper not being able to handle that much moisture without cockling.

 

[AF]

Cool your jets, just sharing my observation.

 

[dypinc]

I am printing so the ink is cooling my thermal head jets.

 

[rabtech]

Does anyone else, besides me, have frequent head crashes when you are first trying to print on Gloss Calendared vinyl? My seems to crash every time. Im printing on Oracal 3641 using HP's Oracal 3640G Profile. I have even left 20" or so on the front end to give it a little more weight. Ive had it happen a lot when I was using Avery vinyl so I switch to Oracal thinking it was a media issue? At a loss of words hear. For how many PROS this printer has, it has just as many CONS.

Thoughts?

I thought it was just me. I just started using my 115 Latex and I cant use the Oracal Gloss vinyl. It will cause the head to smack the material everytime. And if I dont run the material forward past the point where the material exits the heater area it will hit that lip and curl up and cause a head strike. I have had better luck with the cheaper Brightline material. It seems to lay a little flatter. But I even get head strikes with it. So far I have wasted quite a bit of ink and material just because of head strikes. I use the presets that are already in the printer when it comes to choosing the correct preset for the material. So far the only preset I use is the self adhesive vinyl preset.

I read through this thread and I like the idea of using some tape and having a few magnets from the edges. That seems like it would hold the material down onto the flat area where the printhead moves.

Anyway I just wanted to let you know that it isn't just you. Like I said I cant even use good name brand material because it has a very very small raised spot where the print head moves. It is because it is thicker and due to the exit path being turned downward it will naturally slightly bow the material .

 

[dypinc]

How thick are your release liners? Anything under 85# is going to be problematic. You can lower heat and up the passes or the interpass delay which might help.