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HP Latex L360 colour difference from the L25500 - Help!!!

S

Sign351

New Member
First time post...but having some big problems with a colour difference in a set of prints.
Using my L25500 prints displayed the true colour as a rich burgundy.
For some reason, the L360 is printing it as a dark salmon...all the colours seem to be printing
dull compared to the previous ones.
Halfway through a fleet of buses....grrrrr...
Changed any low inks done a colour calibration test, done run all test plots and tried different medias.
Anyone else had experienced this? And what did you do......
Cheers for any help.
 
P

player

New Member
Search Signs101. A week ago or so there was a very in depth thread about not getting good colour from a 360 or 370. Something about starting a completely new profile or something, and how to do it properly.

From what I have read from user Color Correct the HP's have issues in this area.

Good luck.
 
dypinc

dypinc

New Member
Sign351 said:
First time post...but having some big problems with a colour difference in a set of prints.
Using my L25500 prints displayed the true colour as a rich burgundy.
For some reason, the L360 is printing it as a dark salmon...all the colours seem to be printing
dull compared to the previous ones.
Halfway through a fleet of buses....grrrrr...
Changed any low inks done a colour calibration test, done run all test plots and tried different medias.
Anyone else had experienced this? And what did you do......
Cheers for any help.
Click to expand...

It would be good if you would explain your color management that you used on both printers.

What RIP and or software did you use with the L25500? The L360? are you using the same software to make your profiles for both? If you created profiles on the same media for the two different printers you should be very close.

I had a L25500 and then moved to the L360. I am using the same RIP and software for both and can't say I really see much of a difference but the L360 is more of a challenge because of onboard junk color management that HP tried to put in the 3xx series. Best you can do with the onboard CM on the L3xx series is avoid it the best you can, but you still have to live with ink limitation that HP has imposed.
 
P Wagner

P Wagner

--
Sign351 said:
First time post...but having some big problems with a colour difference in a set of prints.
Using my L25500 prints displayed the true colour as a rich burgundy.
For some reason, the L360 is printing it as a dark salmon...all the colours seem to be printing
dull compared to the previous ones.
Halfway through a fleet of buses....grrrrr...
Changed any low inks done a colour calibration test, done run all test plots and tried different medias.
Anyone else had experienced this? And what did you do......
Cheers for any help.
Click to expand...

The HP Latex 300 series are very different animals from the L2 machine as it relates to color. What they do have in common, along with all other printers, is that it takes ink to produce color when you print. Less ink = smaller color gamut, and the inverse is also true, at least to a point.

With the 300 series, the pass count that you choose to print at will tie the print mode to an ink load range. If you are looking to maximize color gamut when you print on a front lit SAV media for example, you should do so at 10+ passes, as that permits the maximum ink deposit for that class of media to be used (120 percent). If you print at a lower pass count (8 or lower), the amount of ink allowed to be used goes down in accordance.

This (tying the pass count to a defined ink range for each media class) is done on purpose, as it assists the user to craft an environment in the printer and media profile that will be able to dry the amount of ink that is being deposited.

Paul
 
dypinc

dypinc

New Member
Castek Resources said:
The HP Latex 300 series are very different animals from the L2 machine as it relates to color. What they do have in common, along with all other printers, is that it takes ink to produce color when you print. Less ink = smaller color gamut, and the inverse is also true, at least to a point.

With the 300 series, the pass count that you choose to print at will tie the print mode to an ink load range. If you are looking to maximize color gamut when you print on a front lit SAV media for example, you should do so at 10+ passes, as that permits the maximum ink deposit for that class of media to be used (120 percent). If you print at a lower pass count (8 or lower), the mount of ink allowed to be used goes down.

This (tying the pass count to a defined ink range for each media class) is done on purpose, as it helps the user to craft an environment in the printer and media profile that will be able to dry the amount of ink that is being deposited.

Paul
Click to expand...

Another example of HP trying to idiot proof these printers!
 
S

Sign351

New Member
Thanks

Castek Resources said:
The HP Latex 300 series are very different animals from the L2 machine as it relates to color. What they do have in common, along with all other printers, is that it takes ink to produce color when you print. Less ink = smaller color gamut, and the inverse is also true, at least to a point.

With the 300 series, the pass count that you choose to print at will tie the print mode to an ink load range. If you are looking to maximize color gamut when you print on a front lit SAV media for example, you should do so at 10+ passes, as that permits the maximum ink deposit for that class of media to be used (120 percent). If you print at a lower pass count (8 or lower), the amount of ink allowed to be used goes down in accordance.

This (tying the pass count to a defined ink range for each media class) is done on purpose, as it assists the user to craft an environment in the printer and media profile that will be able to dry the amount of ink that is being deposited.

Paul
Click to expand...

G'day Paul,

Thanks so much for the ideas - especially about the 10+passes idea.
It has produced a much fuller colour, which has been awesome!!!
but unfortunately still doesn't match.
Such a frustration.
Thinking we might have to alter colour in photoshop, but it really shouldn't be that hard....
All a learning experience...
Thanks again
Craig
 
Bly

Bly

New Member
Linearise both.
If that fails, rebuild profiles.
Of course check all heads are firing as they should first.
 
S

Sign351

New Member
Thanks

dypinc said:
It would be good if you would explain your color management that you used on both printers.

What RIP and or software did you use with the L25500? The L360? are you using the same software to make your profiles for both? If you created profiles on the same media for the two different printers you should be very close.

I had a L25500 and then moved to the L360. I am using the same RIP and software for both and can't say I really see much of a difference but the L360 is more of a challenge because of onboard junk color management that HP tried to put in the 3xx series. Best you can do with the onboard CM on the L3xx series is avoid it the best you can, but you still have to live with ink limitation that HP has imposed.
Click to expand...

Thanks for responding,
The Onyx software we used on both,but is a little different with an updated version on the newer machine.
Some of what you have said, I don't actually understand - more a signie than computer tech guy. lol.
But thanks for the info.
Cheers
Craig
 
dypinc

dypinc

New Member
Sign351 said:
Thanks for responding,
The Onyx software we used on both,but is a little different with an updated version on the newer machine.
Some of what you have said, I don't actually understand - more a signie than computer tech guy. lol.
But thanks for the info.
Cheers
Craig
Click to expand...


With the L360 at least use 10pass 120% ink density and make sure the Optimizer is not set any higher than you need, as it is figured into the 120% ink density. The lower optimizer the more ink you can lay down. I would just do a calibration on the printer but then create your profile with Onyx just like you did for the L25500, but don't do the ink limiting/linearization with the L360.

If you really need to you could use the backlit setting which will allow you to go higher on the ink density. You could try 12pass at 150% ink density. While most SAV will take a bigger ink load I found in testing this that you rarely gain anything going over 120%. Too high an ink density and you will get a milky look just like with the L25500.
 
dypinc

dypinc

New Member
Bly said:
Linearise both.
If that fails, rebuild profiles.
Of course check all heads are firing as they should first.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is advantage to do ink limiting/linearization with the RIP on the L3xx series, in fact in my testing it limited your gamut. What I suspect is going on is that with my RIP anyway the inks are printing pure as they are supposed to be when printing ink limiting/linearization target. The same as when you tell the RIP to print pure color like 100% of a color prints that color with no CM the way we get the really nice rich blacks with these latex printers.

Since a regular color managed job can not be printed without the printer processing it without some sort of internal calibration/ink limiting going on you are essentially double ink limiting/linearization the printer if you also have your RIP doing that. In other words a regular color managed job going through the printer, the printer has a different characteristic then when you did the ink limiting/linearization. That was not true with the L2 series and another HP screwup with the L3s. If they wanted to make the L3s a contone printer why not just address like any other aqueous printer and just make printer driver for the different OSs. Why this half-way screw around. I guess it is one good thing that you can at least print each color as pure, but then the joke is that when sending a regular color managed job the printer add ink limiting and calibration on top what it gets from the RIP.

I just profiled some fabrics where you can not do a calibration on the printer, but I am reasonability sure that there is a ink limiting and calibration still going on.
 
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