• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

I have to thank other sign shops for the following rant

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
This isn't aimed at everyone ... just ... you know who you are if it is.

Now I really can't remember how many times in the last year alone I've had to replace or fix or correct others shops graphics but COME ON! This last week alone I've had 3 rigs come in who had graphics done by their "local guy" that was digitally printed but now the lettering faded to nothing but a big blob of white because they took it through a truck wash and they used acid on it .... but NOOOO ... the sign shop never mentioned a damn thing about laminated to protect that lettering OR about how they shouldn't use truck washes that RECYCLE THEIR ACID FILLED WATER that will kill their lettering. Thank you SOOO much. I also had 6 trucks come in that someone with a print/cut system got a VIN wrong asking if I could make what they had exactly ... but correctly ... couldn't because of no solvent printer in the shop and not having time to send it to the wholesaler. but come on ... it's a fricken VIN ... it's in the door, it takes 5 seconds for you to say "hey driver, is this information correct" or 30 seconds to run out there, open their door and check their plate. Don't be lazy.

NOW FOR (lack of) DESIGN WORK. If you have a $20k+ investment in equipment ... please learn design 101 ... spend $1k more and learn to do more than an outline and bevel on lettering ... also learn to avoid turning signage schizophrenic with 3 or 4 typefaces on one company name ... and for the love of all that is unholy why the crap would you use 3 drop shadows all in different directions ON THE SAME ITEM. And lastly on that subject, if you DO have a print and cut system ... make sure you know how to align your print ... I'm completely tired of seeing graphics cut with an 1/8" misalignment to the border.

NOW to all you vinyl monkeys out there ... I hope you do read this ... I know your chinese plotter was a good starting point but here are a few things to consider when someone ELSE has to re-do your crappy job since you don't know how to do more than just use arial, cut, weed, mask and ... obviously must not know how to use a ruler.
1. INTERMEDIATE VINYL IS NOT DESIGNED FOR VEHICLES ... High performance costs a tiny bit more and won't DIE in a year. Please do realize this or QUIT your 'job' and go work at mc donalds ... they have pretty little pictures for everything so you don't need to read or think.
2. TAPE MEASURES ARE ESSENTIAL, NOT OPTIONAL. If you can not make a graphic be in the same place from one side of a vehicle to the other ... see fix to number one. I hate you the most for this.
3. Just because someone says they have one thing on the vehicle (a vin, a 'fire extinguisher inside', whatever) doesn't mean it will match what you put on (both in color or typeface) it is your job to convince them that it will look BETTER not to leave that 10 year old 'chrome' vin on the truck. And can you NOT use brush script AND comic sans on the same truck ... If I find out who exactly does this ... I swear I might snap and track that person down to beat that person with their keyboard.
4. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT INFORMATION. I already addressed this above, but I think this one goes double. The most errors I see in the form of incorrect numbers, names, colors, signs, whatever ... is from people who just do cut vinyl. I Despise this. It takes more time to match sizing, vinyl and typefaces than it does to cut/weed/mask/install one or two numbers that someone couldn't be bothered with to ask the person "is this all correct" If you can't be bothered with this simple task ... see fix to number one.

In all this week I alone took care of 19 rigs that had all these issues ... I would like to say this is not average, BUT IT IS. I know that not every job can be an exciting opportunity for amazing signage, but what the frak people. We are not the cheapest around ... by far ... but when most shops take 2 weeks to do simple lettering you would think they wouldn't have some of the most basic of issues. I do your jobs in an hour (two if I have to remove your crappy lettering)

I do thank you so much for the work ... you do such a crappy job that my basic lettering jobs seem amazing to them and I get more work and referrals than I can shake a stick at sometimes. But make no mistake ... you belong in a job that doesn't require brain power since little to no effort is made in the use of that department. And I wish I had the equipment and the room for said equipment that most shops do not seem to know how to use to the machines fullest. I would be more than happy to take your equipment and actually use it effectively.

Again, this isn't at everyone ... I see some great signs come across my front door every week that I'm sad to remove, but people change companies or trucks so they can't stay. I also know some people want vehicle graphics and don't want to pay ... or replace everything. But week after week I see these same issues and it's no wonder that people see our work as not worth the money.
 

John Butto

New Member
What a great business concept: move into location with 3 bad sign shops and 1 good one and double your money income. Now that I think about it those are called franchises.
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
What a great business concept: move into location with 3 bad sign shops and 1 good one and double your money income. Now that I think about it those are called franchises.

75%-95% of my fix jobs come from around the country. The other ones ... I know who they are, and I'm interested in how they actually stay in business with the work they do.
 

andy

New Member
Price....

Charge enough and you can afford the best materials and have time to invest in getting the product perfect and the install spot on.

As I discovered earlier in the week this is an alien concept to a lot of people... some cheap pr!ck in your town quotes for a job based on serving up the "quality" results you've alluded to and everyone else is $hit scared of charging more... I mean, if you charge a higher price and do a Rolls Royce job how the hell do you "sleep at night"???!!!

You don't want to be known as the guy who charged $325 for a truck cab when the other guys were all quoting $90... hell no... what would the vicar say!!!!

Charge enough and you can afford the time and the quality materials to deliver a great job.... charge f*ck all and you're forced to rush through the job using whatever cheap $hit you can lay your hands on.
 

Latigo

New Member
Please don't read anything into this, but how long have you been in the business? I'm asking because of your icon ... "College Sophmore"
Thanks
Pierre
 

Malkin

New Member
Pretty sure those titles are automaticly assigned based on the number of posts a user has (for non-premium members)
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
Please don't read anything into this, but how long have you been in the business? I'm asking because of your icon ... "College Sophmore"
Thanks
Pierre

It's based on number of posts and longevity on the board. Being as I'm a non-premie ... it will go college sophmore, something else, somthing else, certified somthing designer, and then phd.

better part of a decade though to answer your question. And what is wrong with Chernabog? He's the only Disney villian never to be defeated ... I think it goes well with a name "TyrantDesigner"
 
doing a jeep next week because the "local sign guy" whos been around for years insisted that the cal material he used for the job would be perfect for a jeep which stays outside in the sun all day with blacked out windows!!! ........makes you wonder eh!
now hes coming to us to get the job done correctly.
 

hydo1

New Member
I don't understand why you are complaining? Lower quality work and materials from the competition only makes your company look better.

Also, I have been using intermediate vinyl for YEARS with no issues.
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
Intermediate vinyl is NOT meant for anything permanent. It is especially lousy to use on vehicle graphics. I laugh at vehicles and other signs where the graphics have cracked or curled off the surface within months of installation. That's what intermediate vinyl does (especially here with Oklahoma's weather). It's decent for a temporary banner. Not so good for anything that has to last years.

Regarding the original post, it echoes some of my feelings from 18 years in the business. The sign industry is an extremely details oriented business. You do have to "sweat the small stuff." Unfortunately many do not.

I have zero respect for anyone who can't get past "Arial" in the font menu and then chooses to stretch and squeeze it to fit any given space. There is a number of other serious sins in graphic design where I will judge the person committing the visual crime to be a hack. This problem is compounded by the various fly-by-night or franchise operations that don't pay their people worth a hoot, much less pay more to attract anyone with real graphic design talent. All they do is undercut legit sign shops until they bleed to death from very narrow to non-existent profit margins.

It's a rare thing for customer provided artwork to arrive in my computer in proper shape. So much of the graphic design industry has been de-professionalized by DIY efforts from customers and a lot of self-taught people doing design work without really knowing what they're doing. The situation has become so bad that I even encounter people with design training that make lots of obvious mistakes. Too many places are only teaching people how to use an application. They're not doing enough to teach visual problem solving skills. They're not teaching "agency and studio skills" concepts in work flow either -such as the most elemental thing: create your design in mind of the output device or medium. A freaking JPEG image contained in a PowerPoint PPT file is NOT acceptable for sign use. But too many of these folks don't know or don't even care. To them it's a "digital" file and that's good enough.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
-such as the most elemental thing: create your design in mind of the output device or medium. A freaking JPEG image contained in a PowerPoint PPT file is NOT acceptable for sign use. But too many of these folks don't know or don't even care. To them it's a "digital" file and that's good enough.

I hate this, I hate this, I hate this.

Unfortunately, I deal with it on almost a daily basis when I'm trying to do embroidery work.

I will have people that use layers to "hide" things that my CAD programs pick up and want to use everything that it "sees" or I'll get thumbnail size JPGs to try to re-create in an embroidery file(I get this most of all). Raster images are the worst things to use, but they are the most abundent files out there that I get. I want to pull my hair out every time I get one of those. Usually means I have to re-draw it or attempt to.
 

Latigo

New Member
What the heck is a Chernabog?? I'm probably dating myself, but that's a new one for me. I think maybe 52 years in the art business dated me anyway. Oh well........ :rolleyes:
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
What the heck is a Chernabog?? I'm probably dating myself, but that's a new one for me. I think maybe 52 years in the art business dated me anyway. Oh well........ :rolleyes:

he's from Fantasia, a 1940 Disney film , he was the giant demon in "Night on Bald Mountain" ... also was in Fantasia 2000 ... but I have yet to see that one.
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
Intermediate vinyl is NOT meant for anything permanent.

+1 to that. I use it only for window clings (and give plenty of extras) since they will most likely be scraped off by window cleaners before they die, and paint masks. I have 4 rolls of intermediate someone gave to me that are ONLY paint masks because after one year the adhesive doesn't stick anymore. Hate the stuff.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
he's from Fantasia, a 1940 Disney film , he was the giant demon in "Night on Bald Mountain" ... also was in Fantasia 2000 ... but I have yet to see that one.

I had no idea about that, but then again I've never seen either of those films. I was more of a Great Mouse Detective fan myself.
 

signmeup

New Member
You're complaining because you have a steady stream of work to do and new customers to impress/save with your superior abilities? Poor baby.
 
Top