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I need a designer who can also do production
- Thread starter Adam Parfrey
- Start date
equippaint
Active Member
Nobody sits back and says, I want an awesome employee but no way am I going to pay him what they are worth. When you own a business and the reality of overhead, cash reserves, cash flow and pricing pressures on jobs start to set in, then you will understand why it isn't as black and white as some employees see it.
This.
SignsSupport
Support & Tech Administrator
Agreed.
So I've cleaned the thread of the extracurricular, off-topic chit-chat.
If you guys want to debate politics/economics/etc... - please take it to the Entertainment, Humor and Spoofs section.
Otherwise - I'm sure the OP Adam Parfrey would appreciate you guys stop taking his thread off the rails.
Thanks,
SignsSupport
brycesteiner
New Member
I've hired one really good one from college and others who weren't worth anything.
I've found if they are motivated and not afraid of new ideas, they can be better if you train them yourself.
Even my really good one came in with many misconceptions of the printing industry. The professor would tell them the should always do design in Illustrator, even booklets. It took a while to break her of that. Prof also told them that anything black should be set to registration color. Not to bash education, but I'm beginning to think that many of the professors out there couldn't make it in the industry so they fell back on their minor.
I've found if they are motivated and not afraid of new ideas, they can be better if you train them yourself.
Even my really good one came in with many misconceptions of the printing industry. The professor would tell them the should always do design in Illustrator, even booklets. It took a while to break her of that. Prof also told them that anything black should be set to registration color. Not to bash education, but I'm beginning to think that many of the professors out there couldn't make it in the industry so they fell back on their minor.
Most of the people I have worked with/for are self taught production people. I find that many of the people that have an 'education' in design lack the knowledge of current production. It seems like they are taught to design for the screen. Do you think this is a case of the educational system not keeping up with industry or is this just a symptom of the fact that there are multiple different ways of doing something and depending on our own backgrounds we deem them right or wrong?
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
I don't know if it's actually that way. I think unfortunately the industry tries to establish this WYSIWYG. And that is designing for the screen then just go from there as if everything is going to be just fine.
Compound that with the arrogance of some designers that everything should be able to produce something "as is" to what they have designed, even though they (more then likely) know nothing of what goes into the production side of things for that particular application.
myront
Dammit, make it faster!!
Hmmm hire a pilot with lot's of actual flying time or someone who took a written course and flew airplanes on playstation/XBox
p.s. When it was apparent that I'd have to retire from the military sooner than I wanted, I panicked. Where I work now is the first place I cold called to see if they were hiring. I was hired before I actually retired from the USAF. I've been treated quite well here.
p.s. When it was apparent that I'd have to retire from the military sooner than I wanted, I panicked. Where I work now is the first place I cold called to see if they were hiring. I was hired before I actually retired from the USAF. I've been treated quite well here.
brycesteiner
New Member
I think it is rare to find a person who knows how to design for print. Let alone knowing how to make the vectors right for cutting. This is truly trickier than offset printing due vectors overlapping and still not having it cut through. signage printing needs to have the inks limited through profiles and to make colors come out right but there are other facets that are just tricky. Some of the fonts are so thin that when the vinyl ages, starts peeling up. Knowing this only comes from doing and where apprenticeship shines.
equippaint
Active Member
Id have to respectfully disagree. There is much more that goes into offset printing than running something through a digital printer. If you use a quality vinyl, you wont have peeling issues either. You can easily teach yourself how to work with vectors, digital printers and plotters but good luck learning how to run an offset press on youtube.
clarizeyale
New Member
LOL I made this statement before and had a lot of backlash. nice to see other people see this too (says the millennial)
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I came into the "industry" on a whim to help a friend/now boss. I took interior design, architecture, drawing classes, some graphic/web design classes all at a community college. already crafty and artsy, I came in initially for organizing and stuff as a part time job. Started weeding and doing hands on production first then helped with installing. Boss knew I knew the basics of illustrator (I TA'd one semester for an intro to the Adobe Creative Suite class) so she had me doing easy layouts and eventually, learning flexi and running the plotters and printers. Prior to this, I worked retail at a clothing store and gamestop…...
It's been almost 5 years and I could run this shop if I wanted but overall, I know how to quote/invoice, customer service, do site surveys for the jobs we do, print, lam, weed, run a CNC, make cut files and all that Gucci stuff. I run production and train or have shown my other coworkers how to run certain machines and stuff to get our shop moving.
Get someone young, hungry, and hopefully someone who is into stickers, wraps, and/or signs.... Someone with a good work ethic and can bring their skills to help your shop grow. but by god, do NOT take advantage of us. We need to work to make a living too. Reading this crap about wanting to pay someone close to nothing or doesn't want to give a raise pisses me off as though WE DONT have sh!t to work for or aspire to do... Do you wanna grow? Your employees will and will need a paycheck that reflects that just as their lives grow too. Of course, their progression and improvement is a very important factor in this but don't be a Richard about it.
equippaint
Active Member
I'm not sure why but this always strikes a nerve with me. Why does everyone think business owners are millionaires? As if we're just all greedy people taking advantage of the peasants.
Does anyone ever stop and think of how advantageous it would be to hire star people and pay way more than the market will bear? You would have your pick of the best in your market. Do you understand how we would all love to never have turnover, employee issues etc. No one pays less because they want to make a few more dollars. With most small business, pay is based on what people can afford and many owners make less than their employees. I can assure you that even doctors whine about their pay and it is just as annoying.
clarizeyale
New Member
I don't believe that either... but this was more in response to this quote by JTBoh
Just do what everyone else in the world does and hire a GA out of college, train them in production, and then continue to pay them the rate of a GA.
When they get tired of low rates and long hours, rinse, repeat. It's a win for you and a lose for them, but who cares, they're expendable.
AMIRITE?
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I live in a city where 100k is now considered low income or something... I appreciate what I get but seeing comments like ^ that do not help.
clarizeyale
New Member
I think I'm bitter from what all these businesses (tech/start ups/salesforce/crapcrapcrap) have done to the jobs and economic sh!t show in the city I'm in that making 50k/yr is barely scraping by.
equippaint
Active Member
Is that really happening though or just some blowhard that has never owned a business saying that? My opinions on him and his nonsense were a bit inappropriate and have been deleted. Don't get discouraged from people that don't have a firm grasp on reality. Like Ive said before, most small business people will pay the maximum that they can bear for a good employee, no two ways about it. It is in their best interest. Being cheap costs more than paying a fair rate but this is all within the confines of ability.
clarizeyale
New Member
I do believe we all have to start from somewhere, as I did at minimum wage. Again, VERY appreciative of what I get now compared to then... I just did not appreciate his comment about keeping pay low and if they're over it, get rid of them. I for one do not encourage such practices.
Our shop is small so I know similar businesses are not just hoarding money or trying to pay as little as they can or that owners are millionaires
WITH what OP was requesting though, that aint a start from the beginning position for sure... Hopefully he finds/has found someone by now.
equippaint
Active Member
Do you have a twin? LOL
No, not LOL. I'm dead serious. I'm sorry to inform you but you are the exception to the norm. Especially in your age demographic.
Our company wants to grow, wants to do even more interesting and creatively demanding work and on average pays several dollars per hour more than most of our competition. In our area there is a lack of commitment, motivation, diversity of skills and flat out reliability regardless of age group or experience. We've grown at least 10% per year for four consecutive years, but its mostly on the backs of my spouse and I working long days and many weekends because "the help" is off enjoying their time off and project the patented grimace and stink eye whenever the word overtime is mentioned. They'll all gripe about how expensive it is to live here but do little to expand their income.
This area is still regarded as more of a playground and low wage haven, so we're constantly fighting to attract and retain motivated, reliable help. Several of our primary competitors are family staffed businesses and based on the frequent want ads we see with wage ranges posted, they likely aren't paying their own family members market rates either.