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I need advice

Discussion in 'Digital Printing' started by gabagoo, Nov 13, 2009.

  1. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    I constantly run into color problems with high end customers. Here is my dilemma on this current job. The file is set up in indesign. I have an inhouse designer who then resets it up the way I need it for flexi, then I print it. In most cases I want vector files because I need to match spot colors. This file is a mix of vector with a bitmap, which in itself is not a problem, the problem is that the bitmap then has a shadow built around it and if I use an eps file it comes in as a light blue box around the bitmap which is wrong. If I ask the designer to save it as a tiff file then everything is OK except the spot colour is now far to light. So I guess the question is why does the tiff file change the spot color so drastically that I can't print it. I don't think Flexi has the capabilities of isolating one colour in a bitmap and being able to change it to a spot. How do you guys deal with this issue? I hope I explained that correctly. Every so often these problems arise and I waste far to much time trying to solve them.
     
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  2. mark in tx

    mark in tx Very Active Member

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    99% of your problems will be solved if you get your workflow properly profiled.
    From the monitors, to the workspace of the software, to the output of the printer.
     
  3. HaroldDesign

    HaroldDesign Very Active Member

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    In the original file flatten transparency on the element with the drop-shadow. When a file contains spot colors and transparency - convert the spot colors to process (and don't flatten the file into a tiff or whatever).
     
  4. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    I really do not think this is a profile issue. He saved the file as a spot 287 and sent it to me as an eps file. It opens and outside of this shadow problem the colour is perfect. He then saved it as a tiff and the blue gets a heck of a lot lighter so its not the profile but how the color changes when converted to a bitmap. Maybe a tiff is the wrong way maybe I should try a high res jpeg? Frustrating!!!
     
  5. HaroldDesign

    HaroldDesign Very Active Member

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    It's not a profile issue - spot colors and transparency don't mix.

    Keep it an eps. If the 287 looks different after being converted to process, just tweak the cmyk values to get a match.
     
  6. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    I would love to keep it as an eps but the shadow built around the bitmap comes in like a big light blue square andif I try a pdf file it comes in as a black square. I need to start printing so I am just going to have to print the lighter blue and hope no one notices
     
  7. luggnut

    luggnut Very Active Member

    combining rasters and vectors ino a file can cause issues in the rip because of the rendering intents are different by default in the rip. rasters are generaly render perceptual and vectors set is no color correction or relative colormetric. i set both rasters and vectors to relative colormetric for files like this and that gets rid of that box around the rasters .
     
  8. rfulford

    rfulford Active Member

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    If you are not color managed, your only option is trial and error. With good color management, You should be able to hit any spot color that is within the gamut of your printer. The trick is to rid yourself and your clients of the old "CMYK is the correct color for print" mentality. Files received in CMYK are usually separated for US Web Coated SWOP, the ugliest and smallest gamut type of printing on the market.

    Use Adobe RGB instead. There are very few spot colors that can not be accurately defined as Adobe RGB. There are just a couple that I have encountered with a delta error of 2 or less. Not bad actually. Keep your vector spot and raster spot accurately defined as Adobe RGB and let your color management handle the rest.
     
  9. HaroldDesign

    HaroldDesign Very Active Member

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    ...The square still shows up (in an .eps) if the file's transparency has been flattened and the spot is converted to cmyk? I keep bringing it up because I've fixed that problem so many times by doing so.
     
  10. rfulford

    rfulford Active Member

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    Wow, i thought I was going to be the 2cnd post. Guess I took too long. As above, set your rendering intents to relative colormetric, turn off spot color replacement if active and use Adobe RGB for color.
     
  11. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    Just out of curiosity......why the hell do designers set the files up like this to beigin with? I would think most files have to be printed so is this not going to be a problem for everyone dealing with it. Why can't the shadow be part of the bitmap? makes sense to me but then I am just a dumb *** sign guy trying to make a buck. As far as these guys here who always jump to color management as an answer for everything...your wrong. This has nothing to do with colour management. I know the colour I want and I know how my printer will print it, but I need it in a vector format so I can accomplish that. A bitmap of that spot color is just awful and unrepairable by me. I am now having the designer close crop the bitmap and the shadow and saving the entire thing as a bitmap that I can drop on top of the spot color background. Hopefully that ends this 3 hour delay and I can get on with my FRIDAY THE 13TH!!!!! Thanks guys for your help. Not sure where I would be without this community.....probably driving a truck by now hehehe
     
  12. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    UPDATE:

    I threw my hands up in the air and called my client , explained the 3 options we have at this point.
    1) print it as a bitmap file with the lighter blue. ( not a good option as we print other retractables and I dont want his client wanting to know why the color keeps changing
    2) Print it with the newly built drop shadow that has no translucency and goes from a grey to a white then hits the blue background (looks like chit)

    3) Get rid of the drop shadow and GO GO GO!!! (the shadow is very small anyhow

    He went with 3 thank God.

    Thanks again guys, but I will be lookign to solve this dilemma for the next banner!!
     
  13. mark in tx

    mark in tx Very Active Member

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    You need to get your equipment profiled!!
    I'm not talking about selecting a profile from the drop down list.

    I am talking about your monitor display being read and properly calibrated,
    then your workspaces set in software,
    then test prints made, which are read by a color spectrophotometer,
    and then proper print profiles are generated.

    I guarantee you will eliminate 99% of the problems you are having right now.
     
  14. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    OK you are probably correct in some respects but as to this particular file profiling is not the problem. The problem is that I do not have a way to work backwards with a bitmap. Flexi may be the problem that it cant convert the translucency mixed with the shadow created but I dont think it is Flexi. The problem is that this blue box I was seeing over the darker blue eps file was the bitmap file being converted to cmyk. If you have a bridge chart pantone book you will see immediately that a 293 blue spot can never look good as a cmyk. So the drop shadow was mixed with the 293 blue, but as a cmyk file as where the main color blue I print is a spot color that I found using my color charts to match to this clients blue. I don't want the cmyk blue as it is so off that the fear of the banner being rejected is high. IN the end it very well may be a profiling problem if you are telling me that for example we make a box and I fill it with a Flexi Pantone 286 coated blue, then duplicate the box and export one as a tiff and bring it back into the file and both blues are identical when printed. YES then it is a profiling issue and if you can sayI can fix this with profiling then I would spend any amount to make it happen, but if that is the case why does pantone have a bridge chart?
     
  15. ProWraps

    ProWraps Very Active Member

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    why dont you just export it as a no-compression jpg and print it?
     
  16. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    I think the same issue will happen whereby when converted to cmyk to create the jpg the color gets much lighter.
     
  17. ProWraps

    ProWraps Very Active Member

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    well, there is a simple way to find out. worth a try as it might solve the problem. we design everything in rgb. never cmyk.
     
  18. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    it's weird!!! I understand what you mean but your printer, prints in cmyk. well I tried the ol export as a tiff and bring it back in and its the same color. Thats good, but when it comes out of illustrator the colours somehow change as a bitmap. What can I suggest the tiff file be saved as from Illustrator to the designer? Is there a way to do it? He may be saving it as cmyk, do you think it will come in differently as an rgb?
     
  19. ProWraps

    ProWraps Very Active Member

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    export it as a jpeg. very different then exporting as a tiff.
     
  20. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    I will give it a try
    thanks Pro!!
     
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