I need recommendations for a new printer

[McLeod Graphics]

Sorry, I know this type of post probably gets annoying to some people, but I'm hoping one or two people will be able to guide me in the right direction.

I currently have an Epson Surecolor S50675. It has been fine for the most part, but I've had my share of frustrations with it - mainly head strikes, print quality issues, and lack of available info and instructional material, including icc profiles. I'm finally doing enough business now to consider an upgrade. I do mostly signs, but I also like to do the occasional art piece on canvas/poster/acrylic, etc. I also want to be able to get the type of quality that would be suitable for high-end vehicle wraps - my current machine does not produce anything near good enough quality to put on a vehicle (at least I'm not able to get that quality out of it). Below are some features I am looking for in a new printer:

* 64"
* prints white
* lots of available info (icc profiles, tutorials, troubleshooting, etc.)
* affordable ink
* photographic quality
* ability to do single-sheet prints
* reliability

I seem to be leaning toward the Epson S80600 but that may just be because I tend to stick to brands with which I'm familiar. I'm not opposed to going with a different brand if it would make more sense for what I need. Seems like a lot of people I see on YouTube have gone with Roland and are getting excellent quality from them. Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[balstestrat]

I don't think there's much to it. S80600 is what you are looking for. Not many options with those criteria.

 

[garyroy]

Do you also contour cut on the machine? If not the Roland

VersaEXPRESS RF-640​

seems like a pretty nice machine, reasonably priced to. I used to have its sister model the VersaArt.

 

[axelmk]

Sorry, I know this type of post probably gets annoying to some people, but I'm hoping one or two people will be able to guide me in the right direction.

I currently have an Epson Surecolor S50675. It has been fine for the most part, but I've had my share of frustrations with it - mainly head strikes, print quality issues, and lack of available info and instructional material, including icc profiles. I'm finally doing enough business now to consider an upgrade. I do mostly signs, but I also like to do the occasional art piece on canvas/poster/acrylic, etc. I also want to be able to get the type of quality that would be suitable for high-end vehicle wraps - my current machine does not produce anything near good enough quality to put on a vehicle (at least I'm not able to get that quality out of it). Below are some features I am looking for in a new printer:

* 64"
* prints white
* lots of available info (icc profiles, tutorials, troubleshooting, etc.)
* affordable ink
* photographic quality
* ability to do single-sheet prints
* reliability

I seem to be leaning toward the Epson S80600 but that may just be because I tend to stick to brands with which I'm familiar. I'm not opposed to going with a different brand if it would make more sense for what I need. Seems like a lot of people I see on YouTube have gone with Roland and are getting excellent quality from them. Thanks for any suggestions.

We used to have an S50670 and changed to latex about 5 years ago, Never looked back! The difference in maintenance and NO Banding with Latex has made all the difference.
Even though Printheads are a consumable; the ability to replace them in snap is real plus. Downtime and ability to fix quality gives you UPTIME.

Today, we have 3 roll to roll latex and 1 Latex Flatbed.
We print Vinyl All day without a problem. We do vehicle Wraps, Rollup Graphics, Canvas, paper etc.
Definitely worth it!
Send me a message or call me if you have any questions. Will be happy to help.
www.1to1printers.com

Best Regards,
Axel

 

[Solventinkjet]

From a technical standpoint the Epson will beat any HP or Roland when it comes to quality. So if that's your top priority, I'd go with the Epson. The drawback will be they are pretty aggressive at preventing you from using 3rd party ink and support after warranty can be expensive.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

I love my S80! Have had it going on 6 years now. I normally like to upgrade every couple of years, but haven't found anything I like better yet.

 

[McLeod Graphics]

I don't think there's much to it. S80600 is what you are looking for. Not many options with those criteria.

That's what I'm finding out. Epson's R5070 looks promising, but it doesn't look like it prints white. Hopefully they come out with a new machine in the next year or two. Thanks for the reply.

Do you also contour cut on the machine? If not the Roland

VersaEXPRESS RF-640​

seems like a pretty nice machine, reasonably priced to. I used to have its sister model the VersaArt.

I don't think this one prints white. Also, I do all of my cutting on a Graphtec. appreciate the suggestion, though.

We used to have an S50670 and changed to latex about 5 years ago, Never looked back! The difference in maintenance and NO Banding with Latex has made all the difference.
Even though Printheads are a consumable; the ability to replace them in snap is real plus. Downtime and ability to fix quality gives you UPTIME.

Today, we have 3 roll to roll latex and 1 Latex Flatbed.
We print Vinyl All day without a problem. We do vehicle Wraps, Rollup Graphics, Canvas, paper etc.
Definitely worth it!
Send me a message or call me if you have any questions. Will be happy to help.
www.1to1printers.com

Best Regards,
Axel

Thanks for taking the time to talk to me! Maybe I'll run into you at a convention sometime soon.

From a technical standpoint the Epson will beat any HP or Roland when it comes to quality. So if that's your top priority, I'd go with the Epson. The drawback will be they are pretty aggressive at preventing you from using 3rd party ink and support after warranty can be expensive.

Do you happen to know how much of an upgrade in print quality it would be going from my S50675 to the S80600? Also, I'm curious to know how the S80600 and R5070 match up in terms of quality. I am leaning strongly toward sticking with Epson, but I'm considering one of the HP machines (700W or 800W). Thanks for the reply!

 

[Solventinkjet]

I am leaning strongly toward sticking with Epson, but I'm considering one of the HP machines (700W or 800W).

The main difference between your current Epson and the new one is the heads have 10 channels instead of 8. So you are running CMYKx2 inks. With the 10 channel heads you get Light Cyan and Light Magenta which smooths out gradients and transitions. You'll also get orange and red which actually expands the color gamut so you will be able to print more vibrant colors. The resolution range will be the same however.

The difference between the Epson and the HP is resolution and dot size. The Epson's highest resolution is 1440x1440 and the HP is 1200x1200. So not a huge difference but the Epson has a variable dot size system that can print down to 4.2 picoliters and the HP only goes down to 10 picoliters. So the Epson can not only fire different sized dots but it can print smaller dots.

I don't know about the R5070 printer much but I took a look at the specs and it seems to have a higher resolution than both machine mentioned above but I've never seen it in action.

At the end of the day I see and hear a lot from people using these machines. People who love their HP tend to talk about the ease of use, low maintenance, being able to laminate instantly, and low odor/low toxicity ink. The people who hate them call them Tonka (as in the plastic toy truck) printers that are too disposable, grainier prints especially in solid colors, and have issues with color and print length consistency. People who love their Epson talk about good speeds at high quality, great color gamut and consistency, and good service while in warranty. People who didn't like their Epson tend to say they don't like the maintenance due to the more toxic inks, expensive service outside of warranty, and lack of 3rd party ink support.

Hope that helps!

 

[McLeod Graphics]

The main difference between your current Epson and the new one is the heads have 10 channels instead of 8. So you are running CMYKx2 inks. With the 10 channel heads you get Light Cyan and Light Magenta which smooths out gradients and transitions. You'll also get orange and red which actually expands the color gamut so you will be able to print more vibrant colors. The resolution range will be the same however.

The difference between the Epson and the HP is resolution and dot size. The Epson's highest resolution is 1440x1440 and the HP is 1200x1200. So not a huge difference but the Epson has a variable dot size system that can print down to 4.2 picoliters and the HP only goes down to 10 picoliters. So the Epson can not only fire different sized dots but it can print smaller dots.

I don't know about the R5070 printer much but I took a look at the specs and it seems to have a higher resolution than both machine mentioned above but I've never seen it in action.

At the end of the day I see and hear a lot from people using these machines. People who love their HP tend to talk about the ease of use, low maintenance, being able to laminate instantly, and low odor/low toxicity ink. The people who hate them call them Tonka (as in the plastic toy truck) printers that are too disposable, grainier prints especially in solid colors, and have issues with color and print length consistency. People who love their Epson talk about good speeds at high quality, great color gamut and consistency, and good service while in warranty. People who didn't like their Epson tend to say they don't like the maintenance due to the more toxic inks, expensive service outside of warranty, and lack of 3rd party ink support.

Hope that helps!

I care more about quality and consistency than most anything else. Expensive/difficult maintenance is not great, of course, but I've already had to replace three print heads and had other service done on my machine, so at least that would not be anything new to me. Main issues I have with my current machine are head strikes, banding, and graininess at times. I want something that doesn't make me sweat when I'm three quarters through a large print.

Anyway, it'll probably be a year or two before I upgrade. I intend to hit up some trade shows in the meantime.

 

[ikarasu]

I don't believe the s50s had head strike problems - so you may have a lemon.. that or you're loading the material wrong / use media's that are prone to curling and strokes, in which case the s80 won't help you as you'll still have to replace the heads on it after it gets too many rubs / strikes.

The r5070 is a great machine. It takes the best of both worlds, it has the reliability / color (almost same print quakity) as the Epson, with cheap heads, instant laminate fast printing of the latex. But as you said... No white ink.


There are rumors that Epson will be announcing a new solvent printer in the next 6ish months - no idea if its true or not, but the s80 is getting older and they're due for an announcement... So if you're not in a rush, it may be worth seeing what epsons about to bring out.

 

[McLeod Graphics]

The r5070 is a great machine. It takes the best of both worlds, it has the reliability / color (almost same print quakity) as the Epson

I definitely want good print quakity


It's possible I'm loading the media wrong or need to adjust my settings, even though I have followed the manual's instructions to a T (which is why I'd rather be on a machine that is actually used by more than three people in the world and has info/ICC profiles available for it).

I didn't mean for it to come across as if I'm constantly having to replace the heads. The first time I replaced them was when I first bought the machine. I got it for $2,000 with the understanding that it likely needed new heads. The other head I had to replace was due to a malfunction and was covered by my insurance. It's been running relatively smoothly since, aside from the occasional annoyance.

Hopefully Epson will release a printer similar to the 700W or 800W. I think that would be the perfect solution.

I appreciate all the recommendations!

 

[ikarasu]

How often do you print?

Solvent printers like to be used on a daily basis... or every other day, worst case. Not using them causes them to go through a ton of cleanings and waste ink, ontop of its not good for the heads.

It's a fine line - Not using the printer enough, or using it often results in needing to replace the heads. Heads generally last 3-5 years on a normal, print everyday scenario.... White ink I believe is harsher and you'll go through heads more often. Some people can go 10 years without replacing heads... but if you get 3, I'd say youre doing pretty good.

Are you just after a quality improvement then? Request some print samples - They send you the "best case" prints on machines they calibrated perfectly... So this is just the first step, once you find a machine you like...talk to the dealers and give them your files for sample prints.



https://epson.com/pro-imaging-large-format-printers-request-print-samples-form If you go here, select the S series - They'll send you some S80 prints, I believe you can select white ink prints as well as regular.

https://reinvent.hp.com/na-en-printsamples-latex-stitch - Here as well. The 700/800 is the newest Latex, and both have white ink options. I dont know if they give you a white sample - But the Latex white is one of the most opaque, whitest whites out there... So if you do a lot of white printing, Latex is great - nice quality... but you will see grain in solid, light color prints if you're looking close up.

I'm sure Roland/Mutoh has a sample site as well, but we've only ever considered Epson / HP, so thats all I know of offhand.


I run the S80 (Well, S40, same print quality / model.. just no white / orange ink), 700W, and R5070 - The r5070 is my favorite machine... but no white. The 700W isnt bad, if you print large wall murals or multi-panel graphics that need to align though... stay away from it. The s80 is great - but I hate solvent... I still use it everyday, but I dont like the workflow as much as the other 2... But if you're fine with solvents, its a great printer - best solvent printer out there, IMO. But get samples of both machines and decide for yourself.


[Edit] On the R5070 you lose about 2 FT of material at the end of the roll - The heater is far past the print zone... I've never done a sheet on it, but I don't think itd work great. The 700 you lose a FT or two in the front on almost every print / material, then 2 FT in the back on the end of the roll - so sheets arent great on this printer either.


We've done some sheets on the S80 - But you tend to lose a ft as well with the sensors... you can tape over and trick them, but all 3 printers are designed for fast, long prints...so sheet printing isnt ideal.

and the other thing to consider is support - if you have no Epson repair techs close to you, stay away from epson...same with the latex.

 

[McLeod Graphics]

Great, thanks so much! It was pretty slow the first couple years (started out in 2019), but business sort of just took off here in the past year and is steadily increasing. I'm still not as busy as I'd like to be, but I'm getting close. I'd say I do an average of 3-4 large banners, plus roughly 1,000-1,500 square feet of DPV every week (<-- yeah, that's a typo lol It's more like 100-150 square feet). Not a ton, but enough to keep the machine working.

Like I said, I'm in no rush to get something new. In fact, I'll probably be replacing my plotter before I get a printer. I just want to make sure when I'm ready, I'm getting the right one.

 

[F1225hgB42w]

The s50/s70 had a different pinch roller system than the S80 does. We had issues with our S70s for years with headstrikes and it pretty much is non existent on our s80s. I hear Epson will release a new solvent as well, but the updates they release tend to be small/incremental increases so I would still look at the s80 even when they release the new machine as it will be cheaper, field tested and have almost all kinks worked out.

When we got our first few s80s one was serial number 10. I still have #10 along with number #1250ish (can't remember exactly and not at the office to look it up) along with #1500ish. The two newer (still 3-4 years old now) have performed much better than #10 did at first, Epson replaced 6 or 7 heads on that machine in a few months(back in 2015/2016), and eventually flew an engineer from Japan to our office for three days of research and testing. That ultimately lead to some firmware changes that fixed some of our head issues. I think they also updated the ink formula early on to avoid head issues.

Long story short, new machines are going to have a few bugs that need to be worked out and I have learned to let other people spend their time doing that, it costs me too much money!

 

[KSTrooper]

We just set up a new HP Latex 700 and we are really liking it so far. We don't have it set up to print white but I know it is capable of it.

 

[balstestrat]

We just set up a new HP Latex 700 and we are really liking it so far. We don't have it set up to print white but I know it is capable of it.

He wants to print sheets, can't do it on that. As well as the photographic quality and reliability is a little questionable.

 

[McLeod Graphics]

The s50/s70 had a different pinch roller system than the S80 does. We had issues with our S70s for years with headstrikes and it pretty much is non existent on our s80s. I hear Epson will release a new solvent as well, but the updates they release tend to be small/incremental increases so I would still look at the s80 even when they release the new machine as it will be cheaper, field tested and have almost all kinks worked out.

When we got our first few s80s one was serial number 10. I still have #10 along with number #1250ish (can't remember exactly and not at the office to look it up) along with #1500ish. The two newer (still 3-4 years old now) have performed much better than #10 did at first, Epson replaced 6 or 7 heads on that machine in a few months(back in 2015/2016), and eventually flew an engineer from Japan to our office for three days of research and testing. That ultimately lead to some firmware changes that fixed some of our head issues. I think they also updated the ink formula early on to avoid head issues.

Long story short, new machines are going to have a few bugs that need to be worked out and I have learned to let other people spend their time doing that, it costs me too much money!

That was my thought as well. I'd like to have a latex system, but if I find a great deal on an S80 that's probably what I'll go with. So glad I'm not the only one experiencing the head-strike issue with this machine! Thanks for the help.

That has nothing to do with clear, only their process. We use clear second surface on white translucent acrylic or polycarbonate then first surface translucent from our latex. On our flatbed we do a mirror print in backlit setting second surface and then a normal first surface print, this gives a great night and day image.

^^^ no idea how this got here or how to make it go away

He wants to print sheets, can't do it on that. As well as the photographic quality and reliability is a little questionable.

I would like to print sheets because I hate to waste material and I usually have a lot of scraps, but it's not important enough to be a deal breaker for an otherwise good machine.

 

[Scotchbrite]

I miss the days of the old JV3 when we could print on any scrap piece that would fit in the machine.

 

[Humble PM]

Scraps, while already paid for and waiting to be profit are time vampires.
I know, I've got ends of silly expensive rolls carefulllly stored, from years gone by. One day soon, I'll order a skip, and a beer for breakfast, and they'll be gone, along with the 20" pvc and acp offcuts that feel too good to throw. (And the old computers with their scsi boards, dongles and the box marked server room ghosts from when we moved three years back).

 

[McLeod Graphics]

Scraps, while already paid for and waiting to be profit are time vampires.
I know, I've got ends of silly expensive rolls carefulllly stored, from years gone by. One day soon, I'll order a skip, and a beer for breakfast, and they'll be gone, along with the 20" pvc and acp offcuts that feel too good to throw. (And the old computers with their scsi boards, dongles and the box marked server room ghosts from when we moved three years back).

I hear you on that. Until I get to the point where it's costing more money to save scraps than I'm getting out of them, I'll continue to save because at the moment I have the time to spare. Plus, there's a certain feeling you get when you can complete a small job using nothing but scraps that would otherwise have been waste, and then go buy that breakfast (beer included) with free money. I'll be a happy man the day that I can't afford to save scraps.