I need to explain to a designer why we have trouble with certain colours

[gabagoo]

I'm not saying actually change the color, jsut open the file in photoshop and mouse over or use the eyedropper on an area of the dark blue that's giving you trouble just to see what the CMYK vaules are. If it's a flattened tiff, which is sounds like it is, you can't change the colors anyway, if there's a gradient in it. I just want to know what the cmyk values are to determine if they are what they should be in the file. That is the very first step to determining where a color problem is. If it's bad in the file, it's going to print bad and you need to have the designer adjust the color on their end. If the color in the file is right, the problem lies with your color management.

If the color is wrong in the file and your printer is indeed printing correctly, the burden of correcting the file lies with your customer, or they need to supply you with a layered file so your designer can make the appropriate changes to get the correct color. If the color is correct in the file, the burden falls to you to correct your color workflow to get your printer to produce it accurately.

FYI, the CMYK values for 289 should be 100/76/10/65. If you have access to the layered file, you might try changing them to 100/80/5/69 to see what happens. If your numbers are nowhere near that, the file is bad.

thanks insignia, I am going to just get her to send me the indesign file. I have found that flattened tiff files are a challenge when dealing with large areas of spot colours. I will have the designer here change the colours to what I know I can print.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

thanks insignia, I am going to just get her to send me the indesign file. I have found that flattened tiff files are a challenge when dealing with large areas of spot colours. I will have the designer here change the colours to what I know I can print.

That's wierd, we have more issues with large areas of solid colors with vector files, we convert every file we print to a cmyk tiff before printing and nail just about every color dead on.

Before you do that though I'd seriously just open that file in photoshop and check to see what the values on that are.

 

[gabagoo]

the values were pretty dead on to my pantone chart and it did indeed print a blue similar to the cmyk valued swatch, but they want the deeper richer blue of the actual pantone colour.

 

[Rooster]

So much advice in this thread and yet no mention of creating your own profiles.

289 is an easy colour to hit. It's well within the gamut of your machine. If the designer's RGB file has an input profile attached, it should be as easy as hitting the print button.

 

[alexmhurst]

Dialing in CMYK values in raster print files

I agree with you but changing the main spot colour is not the problem for me. it would be changing every step of the gradient as well. I dont think I can isolate everything and then the gradient recreates itself based on the data. Maybe I need the original file to accomplish that..

I know this thread is pretty old, but I didn't see anyone mention the following technique and I have found it to be very useful. (I know your problem turned out to be something else anyway.) If you have the CMYK values you want to hit for that particular area of the image, you can eyedropper the file in Photoshop and create custom color adjustment curves.

Say you're trying to hit 100/76/10/65 (which insignia mentions as the color bridge match). Use Photoshop (or similar) to eyedropper the area you want to change. Say you get 90/60/3/50. In Roland VersaWorks (not sure about other RIPs), you can create a custom adjustment curve for each color. For cyan, you'd start with a control point which changes 90 in to 100 out; for magenta you'd start with one tying 60 in to 76 out, and so on. In this way you can be precise about how you change a particular color, and you can tweak the other sections of the curve so that your gradient stays accordingly smooth.

Hope this explanation is helpful to someone; it's been a good way for me to get exactly the CMYK values I want going to the printer when I don't have access to the original layered file.

 

[Fatboy]

Printing is not an exact science.I always tell my customers that.Experienced designers know this!

 

[ddarlak]

couldn't read all of this thread, not patient enoug..

but

get original file....

 

[bob]

Tell them to add 5%-10% noise to the gradient to eliminate banding and send you a full size 150ppi RGB JPG.. Send it to your RIP and let it sort it out. It can do that far better than any other software you have. If your set up is anywhere reasonably close to normal, what you see is pretty much what you'll get.

 

[peavey123]

Tell them to add 5%-10% noise to the gradient to eliminate banding and send you a full size 150ppi RGB JPG.. Send it to your RIP and let it sort it out. It can do that far better than any other software you have. If your set up is anywhere reasonably close to normal, what you see is pretty much what you'll get.

Ya, Did you try printing the RGB file at all? I've found that the rip converts rgb to cmyk much better than photoshop or similar. I've had better results in these situations.

 

[mark galoob]

it sounds to me like the problem lies with the "designer". most of these yahoo's who call themselves "designers" are complete morons. they have no real world print experience. anybody with any experience thats in the industry ought to know that color matching with digital printing is like trying to bullsey 100 yards with a pistol...is it possible, yup, but your gonna spend some time screwing around with it, and its only a hit if your lucky...

mark galoob

 

[WildWestDesigns]

it sounds to me like the problem lies with the "designer". most of these yahoo's who call themselves "designers" are complete morons. they have no real world print experience. anybody with any experience thats in the industry ought to know that color matching with digital printing is like trying to bullsey 100 yards with a pistol...is it possible, yup, but your gonna spend some time screwing around with it, and its only a hit if your lucky...

mark galoob

If you think it's bad in the print world, imagine what it's like for embroidery.

Let's say you could only print 20 shades of blue. You might only have 4 shades of blue that will match exactly in embroidery. All the others will range from decent match to crappy.

 

[BPI Color]

In the supplied PDF, what is the structure of the spot blue to gold blend? Is it simply a gradient or is it created with some form of transparent masks or something else entirely (hint: blend)? Is the spot blue defined as a PMS or has it been redefined as a spot CMYK blend? And finally, do you have spot color matching enabled in your RIP?
And yes, I agree that many designers are under-educated to the point of idiocy. Also, many Pantone colors lie outside the CMYK gamut.
The cmyk values of the Pantone swatches in the Adobe libraries represent industry averages. Many RIPs use lab values to match Pantones but the color has to be defined as "book" for the RIP to accurately reproduce it. And, if some well meaning designer has changed the swatch from book to cmyk (but left it designated as spot) and altered the cmyk values your RIP may run with the new cmyk values rather than the more accurate lab value.

 

[MikePro]

can't simply add a feathered shape overlay of the color you are trying to hit? you'll blend the gradient to the color you're trying to hit.

 

[heyskull]

I would invite the said designer to your shop and physically show her the difficulty you are having.
This usually lets the penny drop and either they pay more money for it to be altered or you will find a compromise and have to make do.
Most of the times you just have to show these people that sometimes it is just not possible and printing with a CMYK printer will always be limited.

I find that as a Signmaker I automatically now design jobs within the capabilities of printing using CMYK.

SC

 

[MakeMyGraphic]

wow.... I would have fired her

Most customers I deal with UNDERSTAND... because when I send them a "proof" I clearly state in my email that the colors reflected on THEIR screen are not a "guaranteed" match and that I cannot guarantee any colors due to it all boiling down to the printer in the end. If they don't understand that, then I apologize and send them off. When I outsource my jobs I don't typically mark it up enough to deal with people who call themselves "Designers" and act more like the rear end of a donkey... IF someone who calls themselves a "Designer" does NOT understand Pantone or the fact that not all computers display the colors the same, then THEY are going to be more work than it is worth... unless you charge them for putting up with their ridiculous requests. At one point I emailed 5 friends of mine the SAME picture and had them all mail back what THEIR printers turned out and showed this to a customer to make them finally grasp the idea that you wont always get exactly what you want... for those who still don't understand and INSIST on me color matching their screens, meh... I don't feel the stress is worth my time since it will only cut my quality of living shorter but kuddos to any of you who are putting up with these people. Send me your info so I can send you my PITA customers ;-)