i1 Pro v HP 365 on board

[DrunknMonk]

Hi, is there any difference to using the onboard spectrometer on my HP 365 v my i1 Pro.

Job:- Match the digital print to 12 colours of CADCAM vinyl, 5 brands.

Current workflow:
Onboard calibration with the 365
i1 Pro on the colour vinyl sample swatch.
print out swatch books per colour
spend hours trying to match the best colours in daylight conditions.

Is there another way or is this the only way it can be done?

Also, should I be using the i1 Pro to do the profiling instead of letting the HP 365 do it on board?

thanks

 

[Pauly]

im not sure what you're asking, but if you're talking about printer profiling then:

Depends on the software you have... and what RIP are you using?
Does the HP do it all automated? or is there user input on ink limits ect? is there any adjustments in the ICC creation?

IICR the HP on-board spectro is Xrite.

Right now from just a guess, the only advantage using the i1pro is using Xrites i1profiler software (if you own it) to create the icc profile. unless there's advanced settings in your rip that you can use manually that the on-board process wont allow you.

Im sure in some software you have there's spot measure where you can just measure all colours and find the smallest Delta E value (0-3)

 

[Bly]

What rip are you using?
With Onyx you can either select a Pantone colour or scan a sample, then print a swatch with variations of that colour and pick the closest match.

 

[DrunknMonk]

im not sure what you're asking, but if you're talking about printer profiling then:

Depends on the software you have... and what RIP are you using?
Does the HP do it all automated? or is there user input on ink limits ect? is there any adjustments in the ICC creation?

IICR the HP on-board spectro is Xrite.

Right now from just a guess, the only advantage using the i1pro is using Xrites i1profiler software (if you own it) to create the icc profile. unless there's advanced settings in your rip that you can use manually that the on-board process wont allow you.

Im sure in some software you have there's spot measure where you can just measure all colours and find the smallest Delta E value (0-3)

Hi Pauly, thanks for the reply, I'm not creating profiles and trying to match coloured vinyl swatches to digital colours, so I was asking if I'm doing it the correct way or is there better ways with different equipment (not the printer).

 

[DrunknMonk]

What rip are you using?
With Onyx you can either select a Pantone colour or scan a sample, then print a swatch with variations of that colour and pick the closest match.

I'm using Onyx, and I'm scanning the colour with i1 Pro but the colours are way out, so that's why I'm asking if I'm doing it right, didn't know if I should be using the onboard HP to make the correct printer profile or I should use the i1 pro to make it, to see if the colours get a better match.

 

[DrunknMonk]

If I make a profile using the i1 Pro and then use the i1 Pro to scan the colour swatches will they match better?

I'm currently using the profile that came from the media manufacture then using the i1 Pro to scan the swatches but the colours are way out.

 

[dypinc]

You should not be using any profile to print the swatches that you are measuring. Choose in Onyx the media preset you have selected on the printer and then print your swatches with color management turned off in Onyx if using i1Profiler. But Onyx should be doing that when you use it's profile making routine. You can also choose to use the on board spectrophotometer in Onyx and then you will still have complete control such a GCR etc when making the profile in Onyx.

I am not a big fan of i1Profiler for making CMYK profiles. I have always gotten better results using the RIP profiling process. i1Profiler makes great RGB profiles but I struggle with CMYK ones. Might be I have never tested it's settings enough to understand how different it is then the Fiery Color Profiler, Colorgate's or the Onyx profiling engine.

 

[DrunknMonk]

I've tried switching it off, I still find the colours way out OR am I just too picky? see attached, 1 is with Pantone 260 selected, and the other is the LAB values that the i1 pro gave me, but with colour management is switched off.

Thanks

 

[DrunknMonk]

Pictures attached of what I'm trying to achieve, but just by printing instead of cut CADCAM vinyl, we do it in vinyl now, but I want to print them to speed up the work as its taking forever to sort vehicle repairs.

 

[dypinc]

The best way to hit Named Pantone colors like that is to look at the output CMYK values in Onyx color replace and use that as a starting point for printing a chart of variations of that color and then determine what values looks the best and then add that to or create a new Spot Color Library. In my experience output profiles can not achieve the gamut necessary to hit those kind of color with the latex inks. Using the spot color library (or just replace color) CMYK output values method will get you the maximum gamut that the latex inks are capable of which still may not be enough to match some colors.

 

[Joe House]

I would at least calibrate the profile you're using before trying to do any color matching. The onboard profiler is pretty easy to use and creating your own profile would probably take a couple of hours and a few yards of vinyl. This should get you closer. Then do as dypinc says and start with what Onyx thinks is a match and tweak it from there.

 

[dypinc]

I probably should have mentioned, absolutely calibrate the profile first. As for reading targets I would tell Onyx to use the onboard spectrophotometer and do something else for while it is printing and reading targets. Won't take anymore vinyl that way and you will have a lot more control over your profile that way, including going back in and changing GCR later if you find you what more or less K use in the highlight areas.

 

[DrunknMonk]

I calibrate the printer every morning before anything is printed, we use the profile from the manufacturers of the vinyl with there ICC profile, my question is how do I get a better match of colour.

1, not a chance your at your limits
2, profile not good
3, i1 pro won't help you
4, just do colour swatches in onyx and move on
5, get some new kit (what kit)
6, Merry Christmas.

 

[dypinc]

4 and 6

 

[greysquirrel]

what media are you printing on? Is there a profile available for download? if so use it but run a color calibration to linearize it to your environment. I am assuming you are using HP branded ink and not 3rd party. If you are creating a new profile from scratch, I have the printer set up the media type but I use media manager and the onboard color meter to actually create the icc. You can select a larger number of swatches to read...giving you a bigger profile(wider gamut) after that is done and I know my color set to my media in my environment use the Pantone check file and send a pick. Make the swatches bigger and give them some space. In the case of what you are trying to match...I might even laminate the print before deciding. The swatch you are trying to match is very glossy. Use a Pantones book if you have one...if you don't have one you shouldn't own a stand alone color meter...
leave onyx default...icc profiles on. the more you play with the rip the further out of sync you are making things and eventually the quicksand you are playing in will consume you.

At this point...I would re-install onyx to have it repair itself back to defaults...then start again.

 

[Pauly]

I calibrate the printer every morning before anything is printed, we use the profile from the manufacturers of the vinyl with there ICC profile, my question is how do I get a better match of colour.

1, not a chance your at your limits
2, profile not good
3, i1 pro won't help you
4, just do colour swatches in onyx and move on
5, get some new kit (what kit)
6, Merry Christmas.

Your comment really confuses me.
How do you calibrate your printer IF you use the manufacture profile?
Or do you mean, you linearise your printer each morning?

unless you're confusing terms and im not making sense of it.

None the less,
I think this video may help you.

 

[dypinc]

Your comment really confuses me.
How do you calibrate your printer IF you use the manufacture profile?
Or do you mean, you linearise your printer each morning?

unless you're confusing terms and im not making sense of it.

Sounds like you're confused. The printer does the calibration, makes no difference what profile you use, manufactures or your own. In Onyx you create a linearization if you want (not necessary with the 365) when making a profile and if so you can re-linearize if you want but even then if you calibrate on the printer it won't really be necessary.