Question ICC profile service question for Signs 101 users

[MJDallas]

Hi, I am curious how many people here generate their own profiles or send them out (or don't even worry about it). The reason I ask is that I am thinking of upgrading my profiler. Either to an X-rite or a Barbieri.

 

[AF]

If you are considering the Barbierri then just get it. The price makes it out of reach for many, where the x-rite is more palatable but not as good. Barbierri > X-rite > canned

 

[Pauly]

What device(s) and software do you have ?
What materials do you print on?
Type of printer(s)
And what do you plan on achieving?

 

[MJDallas]

What device(s) and software do you have ?
What materials do you print on?
Type of printer(s)
And what do you plan on achieving?

Hi Paulo, I have a Color Munki, Spyder 5 an use the included software. I print on an Epson S60600 and different vinyls.

I don’t like the Spyder as it is hard to calibrate my monitors and can’t profile printers. The only reason I would go with the Barbieri would be if there was a need from others to create profiles- otherwise I would go with the i1 Pro.

My goals are to be able to accurately profile both this and my Canon photo printer. As well as all my monitors. I am tired of inconsistent colors.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Pauly]

Hi Paulo, I have a Color Munki, Spyder 5 an use the included software. I print on an Epson S60600 and different vinyls.

I don’t like the Spyder as it is hard to calibrate my monitors and can’t profile printers. The only reason I would go with the Barbieri would be if there was a need from others to create profiles- otherwise I would go with the i1 Pro.

My goals are to be able to accurately profile both this and my Canon photo printer. As well as all my monitors. I am tired of inconsistent colors.

What are your thoughts?

Ok, knowing what you have helps.

I don't know your budget but i suspect you're willing to spend money on the right device.
Basically you need a spectrophotometer and software to create icc profiles. I would not rely on the colormunki software to create icc profiles with a better spectro as it's just a watered down version is i1Profiler.
Keeping in consideration that you may want others to use the device, so you want simplicity?.
If that's the case, then i recommend sticking with X-rite as their software is designed for both the beginner and advance user. Plenty of tutorials and youtube videos.
Barbieri is more advance and specialised and requires 3rd party icc software.
Im sure your running a RIP, you haven't said which one, but im assuming you dont have icc profiling inside the rip and if you do it probably isn't great unless you have onyx or caldera.

In no particular order:
1. X-rite i1Publish package (keep in mind, it does come with a table and ruler so you can accurately measure the patches)
2. X-rite i1Publish + i1io scanning table.
3. Xrite i1iSis 2 and 1iProfiler software as i dont think the i1iSis comes with software. (check with your supplier) You also can go with the XL for A3 sheets if you wish.
4. Barbieri Spectro Swing2 and i1Profiler (or any other software for creating icc profiles) this will require you to use 2 different software to create profiles as you need to read in the Barbieri software then create your profile in another software like 1iprofiler or a basiccicolor solution (they have a few and a lot more expensive) and this can get more tricky for others as there's more variables.

I personally recommend option 3. Same family, all happens in 1 piece of software, a lot of support especially on youtube. I1 profiler is a great piece of software. and also you already have a display calibrating tool so you dont really need the i1publish.

just an FYI so you know im talking from experience. i have a Barbieri LFP s3 and a Barbieri Spectropad2. I also got i1 display pro for my monitors. I've used i1 profiler and basiccolor software.

getting consistent colours is all how you create your profiles. 1iprofiler is pretty consistent with creating profiles and knows how to iron out variables. Other software wont.

Hope this helps.

 

[Solventinkjet]

This post should put to rest all of this other posts that ask, "Which profile should I use?" A majority of sign guys make their own and it's for a reason!

 

[papabud]

i use standard icc profile. used across the board with all my design and print software.
using that as a standard base i create all my own custom print profiles in onyx.
exact color match is not a large priority in my job.
repeating color form year to year is more important.
so as long as i have a standard base to build from. i can keep consistency.

 

[Solventinkjet]

i use standard icc profile. used across the board with all my design and print software.
using that as a standard base i create all my own custom print profiles in onyx.
exact color match is not a large priority in my job.
repeating color form year to year is more important.
so as long as i have a standard base to build from. i can keep consistency.

That's what I always tell my customers. The boxed profiles will print red reds and blue blues but if you want to choose a Pantone color from a swatch library and have it print the exact color without any adjusting or manipulation, you have to profile your own.

 

[Pauly]

Some people probably don't know about making profiles and calibrating if they're new in the game.
But if you're on this forum, you obviously know about it as it's asked and mentioned too many times.

 

[ColorCrest]

so as long as i have a standard base to build from. i can keep consistency.

What is a "standard base" and what are you doing to "keep consistency?"

 

[shoresigns]

While we have the attention of all the colour experts here, I have a few questions I'm curious about:

1. If we purchase an i1, can we use it with Versaworks, or would we need to switch to Onyx or Caldera?
2. Which i1 bundle has what we need to create profiles, linearize profiles and will allow us to sync up the colours on both our printer and monitors?
3. How does an i1 measure fluorescent colours? Does the light on the device include UV or does it leave UV out of the equation?
4. Can it be used to measure reflective and metallic colours? Can it be used to create profiles for reflective vinyls?

 

[ColorCrest]

if you want to choose a Pantone color from a swatch library and have it print the exact color without any adjusting or manipulation, you have to profile your own.

Are you professing that when a user creates their own ICC profiles their Pantone colors will then match without adjusting or manipulation?

 

[papabud]

What is a "standard base" and what are you doing to "keep consistency?"

standard base can be any starting point as long as you use the same point it is your standard.
designing in the same color space that you print from. keeping your machine at the same color calibration.
standard base is the base line where everything starts from.
using this base line will keep consistency across the board.
in the digital realm there is no color. only numbers. it doesnt matter what number you start from. if you start at 2. and use 8 to get to 10. if you always start at 2 and use 8 you will always get 10. if you start from 7 and use 8 you will never hit 10

 

[Pauly]

While we have the attention of all the colour experts here, I have a few questions I'm curious about:

1. If we purchase an i1, can we use it with Versaworks, or would we need to switch to Onyx or Caldera?
2. Which i1 bundle has what we need to create profiles, linearize profiles and will allow us to sync up the colours on both our printer and monitors?
3. How does an i1 measure fluorescent colours? Does the light on the device include UV or does it leave UV out of the equation?
4. Can it be used to measure reflective and metallic colours? Can it be used to create profiles for reflective vinyls?

1. yes. try the onyx 30 day trial first if you want a better RIP.
2. i1pro publish
3. the same way it measures other colours
4. yes but it will probably come up weird. never tired.

 

[shoresigns]

3. How does an i1 measure fluorescent colours? Does the light on the device include UV or does it leave UV out of the equation?

3. the same way it measures other colours

That doesn't really answer my question. If I understand correctly, the i1 shines a light on the sample you're measuring, and it measures the light that reflects back. So if the light on the i1 includes the non-visible UV part of the spectrum, it would measure a different colour on a fluorescent sample, because non-visible UV light reflects back as visible light on fluorescent materials.

 

[Pauly]

That doesn't really answer my question. If I understand correctly, the i1 shines a light on the sample you're measuring, and it measures the light that reflects back. So if the light on the i1 includes the non-visible UV part of the spectrum, it would measure a different colour on a fluorescent sample, because non-visible UV light reflects back as visible light on fluorescent materials.

Yes that's the way it works. I must have miss read your question. sorry.

The xrite has 3 different measuring modes.
M0 M1 and M2.
M0 - UV included
M1 - D50 Illuminate
M2 - UV cut/excluded.

Depending on which measuring mode you go for, it will read a different colour.

 

[SightLine]

Personally I'm not sure that it matters with fluorescent colors because you cannot print them anyways. Well unless you have a Seiko and that special inkset but that is a very very narrow specialty market. i1 Pro here but we use the profiling built into Flexi which works with the i1 and our pro NEC monitors came with Spectraview software which also works with the i1 Pro for creating profiles for our monitors. As has been mentioned a thousand times on here, your own custom profiles are (if done properly) always going to be far better than any canned profiles as they will be optimized for YOUR printer in YOUR environment.

A custom profile will not however suddenly make it so that you can print any specific Pantone color exactly. You will hit many more of them and many more will be a lot closer but not all. You are still limited by the gamut of the inks you use and none are going to get you 100% coverage of every Pantone color. In my own talkign with others shops, the majority do not use custom profiles, most use canned profiles. I think that is great because it makes our work stand out above theirs. Then again, we also use aftermarket inks, specifically with wide gamut formulations that you MUST use custom profiles with as stock profiles will not match at all. And this is on brand new printers too..... (takes some ba**s to void the warranty on a brand new printer on day 1).

 

[Pauly]

Personally I'm not sure that it matters with fluorescent colors because you cannot print them anyways. Well unless you have a Seiko and that special inkset but that is a very very narrow specialty market. i1 Pro here but we use the profiling built into Flexi which works with the i1 and our pro NEC monitors came with Spectraview software which also works with the i1 Pro for creating profiles for our monitors. As has been mentioned a thousand times on here, your own custom profiles are (if done properly) always going to be far better than any canned profiles as they will be optimized for YOUR printer in YOUR environment.

A custom profile will not however suddenly make it so that you can print any specific Pantone color exactly. You will hit many more of them and many more will be a lot closer but not all. You are still limited by the gamut of the inks you use and none are going to get you 100% coverage of every Pantone color. In my own talkign with others shops, the majority do not use custom profiles, most use canned profiles. I think that is great because it makes our work stand out above theirs. Then again, we also use aftermarket inks, specifically with wide gamut formulations that you MUST use custom profiles with as stock profiles will not match at all. And this is on brand new printers too..... (takes some ba**s to void the warranty on a brand new printer on day 1).

I agree, im not sure why it mattes to measure fluro colours as you cannot replicate them unless you have the printing capabilities.

But one thing, You can get good canned profiles, but only with software that will allow you to re-linearise the profile. For example in onyx, you can re-linearise media profiles to get them back on target again. I have tested this with canned profiles and it did work.
This will only work if the printer manufacture have made the profile for the specific media (usually their own) with the RIP it comes with.

 

[Jun Lanon]

1. yes. try the onyx 30 day trial first if you want a better RIP.
2. i1pro publish
3. the same way it measures other colours
4. yes but it will probably come up weird. never tired.

i1 pro on caldera works the best for me.

 

[shoresigns]

Personally I'm not sure that it matters with fluorescent colors because you cannot print them anyways.

I agree, im not sure why it mattes to measure fluro colours as you cannot replicate them unless you have the printing capabilities.

Of course it matters, even if you're not printing in fluoroscent. A spectrophotometer that measures only visible light is going to measure a different colour if the light shining on the test surface includes UV. If you're trying to get the best possible match to a fluoroscent colour on a non-fluorescent printer, you're probably going to want to do a test print based on measurements taken with and without UV.