Need Help I'm not understanding this......................................... ??

[Gino]

Hope I can explain this correctly.

I received a file from a customer and I had to re-create it, as it was grainy already and I had to blow it up. There was one small picture file in it and when blown up, that looked fine, but all the copy had to be redone. Fine. Re-did all the type and set all the black copy to BLACK only. No CYM stuff..... just black. I needed to put a clipping mask on it to make sure everything was kosher. When I send it to print, it turned it into 6 color black. I went back and checked to make sure I had made it all black and I sent the file again. Again it printed all 6 colors to give me black. I have a reason for not wanting to use all the colors at this moment, so does adding a clipping mask change that value/color makeup ??

Gino

 

[WYLDGFI]

Whats the image look like? Sometimes it converts it without you wanting it too.....
Did you limit within the Rip?

 

[Gino]

Underneath the grey boxes is more black copy.

 

[Boudica]

It shouldn't. how are you saving it? jpg, tiff, pdf...

Edit: are you working in photoshop or Illustrator?

 

[Gino]

.ai
I don't remember this ever happening before, either.

 

[WYLDGFI]

If its vector, you should be able to limit all vector data to K only. Usually a button in the rip for that.

 

[Boudica]

is it changing in the RIP? what are you using? Can you change it back to 100% black in your RIP (you can do this in Onyx).

At first I thought it was a color space issue. Like, If you built the artwork in RGB, but the clipping mask was set to CMYK - it will change the artwork to CMYK when you clip it. I'm not certain this would cause your problem though.

 

[Gino]

I imagine it's changing in the RIP, cause when I open it again in illy, it still shows all black. When it prints, it's coming out in all the colors. However, I don't see much magenta showing up, but that might be going down last.and I just can't see it.

 

[Boudica]

what RIP?

 

[FireSprint.com]

It is changing in the RIP. I just know enough to know that your RIP will do whatever the hell it wants based on the RIP's profile and the Illustrator ICC profile you are using.

Try setting it to 100% K in your RIP (color replacement). That will get you closer to what you want.

 

[ewded]

r u sure your document color mode was CMYK on Illu?

 

[Gino]

The parts I re-did were CMYK..... and my scale shows 100% black and nothing else. The RIP is Wasatch.

Don't get me wrong, it ends up being black in the final print, but I did not want to use the other colors for a reason, but they still were used. I was trying to eliminate all colors when black was used.​

 

[ewded]

The parts I re-did were CMYK..... and my scale shows 100% black and nothing else. The RIP is Wasatch.

Don't get me wrong, it ends up being black in the final print, but I did not want to use the other colors for a reason, but they still were used. I was trying to eliminate all colors when black was used.​

Again, does your document color mode show CMYK or RGB in illustrator?

 

[Gino]

Sorry, thought I answered that. The CMYK scale/mode shows up. When I click on the pictures it shows a question mark, but the CMYK mode is still there.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

It is changing in the RIP. I just know enough to know that your RIP will do whatever the hell it wants based on the RIP's profile and the Illustrator ICC profile you are using.

Try setting it to 100% K in your RIP (color replacement). That will get you closer to what you want.

Gino, this is what you are dealing with. Your Illustrator is setting an ICC profile and output intent, your RIP is interpreting that and either respecting or changing it. You need to make sure both match and on top of that in the RIP you should have options for respecting PURE Channels. If you don't have the K channel set, it will default to a build black based on your RIPs set build parameters. This is typically setup initial to prevent muted colors by the RIP manufacturers.

This is the case for all the RIPs I have worked with, including Onyx, Caldera, and Flexi.

 

[Gino]

Hmmm, that sounds interesting. Later today, I'll look further into that.

 

[Baz]

Speaking of ICC Profiles ... Have you tried saving the same job as an .eps?
I remember reading here that .eps files do not have ICC profiles.

 

[ikarasu]

Do you have multiple printers? you should rip it in both and watch the CMYK values be different from each machine! It's infuriating... but working as intended.

When your machine uses a profile... it takes the files CMYK values, then converts them to what it thinks your machine needs to print in order to get those colors. Its not just your black, it'll be everything.... I'm sure if you look at any color it'll be different than what it is in illustrator. Typically if you color calibrated your printer...you want this to happen.

I havent used Wasachi in forever - But there should be a turn off profile option... If you set your color profiles to off, it'll print it based on illustrators CMYK values and not the values your rip thinks it should be. Odds are your blues will come out a bit purple that way, greys will be yellowish, etc... Theres never a perfect, one size fits all solution for color profiling sadly. Hopefully one day technology gets there!

 

[ikarasu]

Just as a demonstration... I made a file with 4 squares. 1 is 100% Cyan, 100% Black, 100% yellow, 100% Magenta. I have 2 different printers... both are profiled, one is a Latex the other an epson. When they get ripped...these are the CMYK Valued each printer wants to use.

(Listed in C, M, Y, K Valued)

HP 560 -
C - 63,22,3

M - 1,92,10,0

Y - 2,6,97,0

K - 64,80,80,77

Epson -
C - 83, 22 , 8 ,0

M - 1, 100,26,0

Y - 3,3,92,0

K - 14, 28, 10, 96

Neither printer will print in just 100% Of a color - Usually that causes a ton of graininess.. The 560 surprises me because its color is pretty accurate, but those values seem pretty far off... I may need to do a manual profile instead of an automatic just to see the difference!


There are ways to make 100% Just be 100% Black without turning off your profiles, if you care now that that one job is over, at least in onyx. In onyx you can make your own swatch names and tell the rip how to handle it... IE I can make a "Process black" swatch thats just 100% and tell the rip to always make that swatch just a default 100% black. Theres likely a way to do it in Wasachi as well.. but you'll have to play with it a bit

 

[Gino]

Well, I haven't gotten to check this all out, yet..... but when I make a file from scratch and assign all black, it will print ALL black. In fact, in the rip, it'll show up as squiggly red lines. That's how I know its 100% black. Later today, I'm gonna do some experimenting. I'm still thinking there's something up with the file they sent me. However, I figured taking thier sh!t out and replacing it with mine, it would still work as I intended.