Impending death of script fonts?

[John Butto]

"I can read reading but I can't read writing" ...Popeye

As Ludwig Wittgenstein once said, sort of, "Things are what it makes sense to say about them'". He said this, of course, because old Ludwig was the founding father of 'Ordinary Language Analysis'. Bog knows what he would have said had he been a pudding manufacturer.

Nonetheless he said it and it has a certain correctness about it. Things are indeed what it makes sense to say about them. Following from this then one might say that a culture is defined by it's language, pretty much. Change the language and you change the culture. Worse, change the language and you change reality since you are changing what you say about things, that being what they are. Things, that is.

I find it sad that that there are a significant number of functional illiterates wandering about, driving on the highways, voting in elections, and handling the vegetables in the supermarket.

Language is the single thing that separates us from all other species on this planet. Humans or the only species extant that have ever, as in ever, been shown unequivocally to have language. 'Language' in this context being that system in which you think, not the various snorts and grunts used to articulate those thoughts. Language allows you to contemplate a future and reflect on a past, not merely exist in the here and now. The ability to contemplate a future, and likewise a past, implies the comprehension of time and of fiction. Incidentally, it's the concept of fiction enables you to lie.

In a very real sense language is what you are and as such should be taught, polished, and tuned at every opportunity. It seems a shame that the educational system these days gives every appearance of want to develop the student's cute personalities all the while insuring that none of them ever encounter anything deemed unpleasant in lieu of teaching them the language and arithmetic skills** that forever will define their lives. We or are descendents will pay for this insanity.

**language skills include being able to read and comprehend language in any form. Be it printed, written [preferably in a fine Spencerian hand], spoken, or scrawled in mayonnaise on a mirror. If you can't read, write, speak, and deal with basic arithmetic you are not a fully functional human. Note that mathematics merely is another, or perhaps an extension of, language.

From locker C18: "All haii Bob"

 

[John Butto]

My generation grew up with dark green and sometimes black background cards with white cursive letters of the alphabet. They, the cards, were about 6"x12", and place around the perimeter of the classroom above the blackboards. Each card had the capitol letter and right next to it the lower case.
Handwriting was a grade on our report cards back then. When I was in sixth grade in 1958, we had a teacher that would write a sentence on the blackboard, which are now not even found in school, and you would write the sentence until she approved it and when she did you had one free hour to do what you wanted, within reason of course. That is when I realized how important writing was and the rewards it offered. I always admired the Constitution being handwritten and the ability of someone to sit down and write so eloquently and keeping all the lines straight and not having misspellings and correct english grammar. Both my mother and grandmother had beautiful penmanship, or the now correct would be penpersonship. So the nice hand writing will be a thing of the past but maybe something else nice will come out of the loss.
I think kids today have a lot more to worry about than writing letters down. They have people who come to the schools and shoot at them, they develop bent spines from looking down at their phones all the time and lest not forget the development of large thumbs from texting.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

I really don't see the problem with them NOT teaching cursive in schools. They should on the other hand teach children how to write coherently so people can read the chicken scratch most people butcher on forms. With the changes to education, teaching something useful like proper English so I don't have to make t-shirt designs that say "Munster Mudderz" will go much further than cursive which in this age is really only useful when it comes to little girls being able to creatively incorporate hearts into their names. Of course I'm overly simplifying and not including useful forms of cursive for branding and corporate identification ... but really, the average person really isn't bright enough to read a 'use other door' sign without slamming into it ... how can we expect them to read cursive as well.

 

[Gino]

I really don't see the problem with them NOT teaching cursive in schools. They should on the other hand teach children how to write coherently so people can read the chicken scratch most people butcher on forms. With the changes to education, teaching something useful like proper English so I don't have to make t-shirt designs that say "Munster Mudderz" will go much further than cursive which in this age is really only useful when it comes to little girls being able to creatively incorporate hearts into their names. Of course I'm overly simplifying and not including useful forms of cursive for branding and corporate identification ... but really, the average person really isn't bright enough to read a 'use other door' sign without slamming into it ... how can we expect them to read cursive as well.

While I hear what you're saying and agree with it to a small point for a few handicapped or mentally challenged people, but why must we bring the bar down to the dumbest kid on the block to now be the norm ?? The learning in the country has gotten worse and worse to the point, even the teachers think it's too hard to learn anymore. Have you heard some of them talk lately ?? No wonder we're spittin' out idiots. So, today we stop teaching script, tomorrow we stop making them read, cause it's hard on their eyes, since the electric grid goes out too often to keep lights on in the house, so after awhile, we won't even have a written language. So, how will we teach future generations ?? Okay, then we ease up on math and geography and history. Why will we even have to go to school ?? There won't be anything worth learning and all the 'Home School' kids will be maladjusted to working in groups. So, we'll produce people that can only mimic what the hear and see and can't think on their own, since they never had to figure out the simplest of calculations. The pattern makers will be gone and when everything starts to shut down and break, no one will be able to repair, let alone replace or think of something new. It's been bred out of them. It's too hard to think. It's much easier to sit back and feed off the government feed tube and keep those blood-suckers in control.


So, can we have ice cream and crackers, now.... or is recess still important ??

 

[bob]

Is not teaching cursive in schools actually changing the language? It is a change in the presentation with zero impact on the message the words present. Cursive writing was developed to accommodate the limitations of quills. Since quills are very rarely used the need for cursive is negligible. While I firmly believe we should all be taught to write the need for two distinctly different methods seems overly redundant.

Not teaching legible handwriting certainly isn't doing the language a whole hell of a lot of good. Witness the litany of insipid abbreviations commonly used by texting aficionados. These insidious sets of initials manage to leak out into other, more civilized, forms of communication, changing the language.

Then the cogent explanation after the fact. A fallacy. It could be easily argued that cursive, script, or plain old handwriting developed in spite of using quills rather than because of them. Writing a continuous line with an instrument that constantly had to be lifted from its task and be re-dipped in ink would not, upon reflection, be all that conducive to writing in a continuous flow of characters. That longhand inarguably is the fastest way to manually put characters on paper, parchment, or whatever, would seem to be more fundamental to the development of handwriting than the instrument used to put them there.

Just so you know, it wasn't sanctimonious, merely a homey description of The Ways Things Are. Even if you might not happen to be aware of it.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

Well, I don't know if I'm talking about dumbing down kids ... Education should not be limited to the classroom, which is a folly of a lot of parents. I know my kid will still learn to at least READ cursive if not write it, and while my cursive skills are about as advanced as a parrot with a crayon trying to write ... I still have the basics down for functional cursive if I ever require it beyond practiced sign lettering and sketched design work which is really just an amalgamation of cursive and printed lettering in most uses. So, yeah ... if my kids get an education that will help them enter the workplace and not be handicapped due to a lack of relevant knowledge ... I can teach the fun and frivolous things and help supplement my child's education with more than what a teacher can give a kid in an already over crowded class room in order to achieve greatness. Besides, teaching kids to be observant and actually learn to read (and understand) as well as write cleanly and effectively shouldn't really be considered lowering the bar to the lowest common denominator ... should really be considered doing ones job so your students aren't failures at life.

Besides, I remember reading a Times article that showed children's school books that had gross errors in them including geography books with state capitols wrong, science books with periodic tables that were wrong and history books that apparently read like historical fiction. So, yeah ... cursive, little low on my list if my child is being taught the capital of Texas isn't Austin, but something like Dallas. Or knowing high school students who can't do basic algebra because they were just shot through the system. But then again, I've also worked with people (very shortly) who couldn't read a ruler or do basic math ... so priorities I guess. Then again ... I hear Mc Donalds is hiring ... they only require you to push pictures and read numbers.

 

[HDvinyl]

Ebonics only looks good in chicken scratchin', who needs cursive.

 

[Gino]

Well, I don't know if I'm talking about dumbing down kids ... Education should not be limited to the classroom, which is a folly of a lot of parents. I know my kid will still learn to at least READ cursive if not write it, and while my cursive skills are about as advanced as a parrot with a crayon trying to write ... I still have the basics down for functional cursive if I ever require it beyond practiced sign lettering and sketched design work which is really just an amalgamation of cursive and printed lettering in most uses. So, yeah ... if my kids get an education that will help them enter the workplace and not be handicapped due to a lack of relevant knowledge ... I can teach the fun and frivolous things and help supplement my child's education with more than what a teacher can give a kid in an already over crowded class room in order to achieve greatness. Besides, teaching kids to be observant and actually learn to read (and understand) as well as write cleanly and effectively shouldn't really be considered lowering the bar to the lowest common denominator ... should really be considered doing ones job so your students aren't failures at life.

Besides, I remember reading a Times article that showed children's school books that had gross errors in them including geography books with state capitols wrong, science books with periodic tables that were wrong and history books that apparently read like historical fiction. So, yeah ... cursive, little low on my list if my child is being taught the capital of Texas isn't Austin, but something like Dallas. Or knowing high school students who can't do basic algebra because they were just shot through the system. But then again, I've also worked with people (very shortly) who couldn't read a ruler or do basic math ... so priorities I guess. Then again ... I hear Mc Donalds is hiring ... they only require you to push pictures and read numbers.

No, sorry, I didn't mean you were, in fact, I said I agree with you up to a point. I'm talking in generalizations and that sometimes gets a little muddy.

Yes, your kids will still learn, but as generation after generation keep getting things handed to them, they continue to take the easy way out because that's what they're being taught. Yell and holler and you might get outta classroom studies. Oops, little Johnny wasn't here for that. We'll just put him through and he'll just hafta catch up next year. BUT, it never happens. That's when the trouble starts. You let them get away with not writing and next they'll say, well, you gave up writing skills, I think we should give up science, my little Suzy dis ever gonna build a rocket, she doesn't need that knowledge. Let that for the 'Special Kids'. 'Special' will take on a whole new meaning after a while.


Wanna test my theory ?? How many people here.... at s101, can't spell worth a crap and can't use simple grammar ?? Quite a few. What's their excuse ?? I don't need it, why should I waste time capitalizing and using punctuation ?? Y'all can figure it out. Y'all know what I mean. See, we're lazy and we're in the business of communication. The people who are easy to comprehend are still writing like normal human beings. How many times do people here write in 1/2 thoughts ?? All the frickin' time. That's why they're are so many arguments, because no one understands each other. We have to pry things out and when it finally does come out, we're treated like jerks because we wanted something clearly stated in English. No, your kids are safe, even if they're only 6 years old. This crap is gonna hit the fan in another 20 years.... if that.

 

[John Butto]

No, sorry, I didn't mean you were, in fact, I said I agree with you up to a point. I'm talking in generalizations and that sometimes gets a little muddy.

Yes, your kids will still learn, but as generation after generation keep getting things handed to them, they continue to take the easy way out because that's what they're being taught. Yell and holler and you might get outta classroom studies. Oops, little Johnny wasn't here for that. We'll just put him through and he'll just hafta catch up next year. BUT, it never happens. That's when the trouble starts. You let them get away with not writing and next they'll say, well, you gave up writing skills, I think we should give up science, my little Suzy dis ever gonna build a rocket, she doesn't need that knowledge. Let that for the 'Special Kids'. 'Special' will take on a whole new meaning after a while.


Wanna test my theory ?? How many people here.... at s101, can't spell worth a crap and can't use simple grammar ?? Quite a few. What's their excuse ?? I don't need it, why should I waste time capitalizing and using punctuation ?? Y'all can figure it out. Y'all know what I mean. See, we're lazy and we're in the business of communication. The people who are easy to comprehend are still writing like normal human beings. How many times do people here write in 1/2 thoughts ?? All the frickin' time. That's why they're are so many arguments, because no one understands each other. We have to pry things out and when it finally does come out, we're treated like jerks because we wanted something clearly stated in English. No, your kids are safe, even if they're only 6 years old. This crap is gonna hit the fan in another 20 years.... if that.

Thanks Gino, guess I have been writing in 1/4 thoughts, now I know why no one argues with me.
My father use to rant, rave and criticize about the future of the kids fifty something years ago, so I try not to repeat the sins of my father.

 

[Joe Diaz]

I think at worst, many many years from now (but maybe still within my life time) cursive writing might go the way of roman numerals. It will be something still taught in school, but maybe not in earlier grades, and it definitely won't be an essential subject. It's not like it's a difficult concept to understand especially for older kids. "...substitute this letter with it's cursive counter part." As far as scripts role in our society I believe it definitively has aesthetic properties that lends itself well to certain applications in design. It never was easier to read then standard lettering so nothing has changed there.

 

[John Butto]

I think at worst, many many years from now (but maybe still within my life time) cursive writing might go the way of roman numerals. It will be something still taught in school, but maybe not in earlier grades, and it definitely won't be an essential subject. It's not like it's a difficult concept to understand especially for older kids. "...substitute this letter with it's cursive counter part." As far as scripts role in our society I believe it definitively has aesthetic properties that lends itself well to certain applications in design. It never was easier to read then standard lettering so nothing has changed there.

Joe, if they ask you to do the Super Bowl logo it is XLVIII.
George Orwell's 1984 book was all about this stuff. Like the Proles (lower class people) being used by giving them alcohol and porn, and having them play lottery but no one ever collected the money. And of course the Big Brother surveillance.

 

[Pat Whatley]

Proof that scripts/cursive is a dying thing....

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Proof that scripts/cursive is a dying thing....

Wow. That's downright hideous.

 

[visual800]

are we talking government schools or private? They way we have schools shutting down around here they should just teach you how to fill out a welfare application and be done with it. Seems to be the way to go

Cursive adds something to signage and advertising that just sets it off. Thats of course if you know how to use it. We ususally try to incorporate scipt in every layout (something I probably need to quit doing) old habits. I would hate to see a world without script but Im sure there is something to take its place