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Income Inequality

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Humor and Spoofs' started by Texas_Signmaker, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

    Somewhat related but I watched this documentary last night on PBS, which likely trigger even more inaccurate, perception driven comments about laziness, god's will, etc. but just a horse to water, you can lead an idiot to knowledge and not make him learn anything. We've never had a true meritocracy and those we perceive as lazy, unmotivated, etc. have simply not had white privilege at their disposal or faced the kind of impediments to success many others have.



    It detailed the history, challenges, roadblocks, mass discrimination, violence, etc. that blacks have faced since being drug here in chains. After slavery and gaining their freedom, blacks throughout America attempted to gain financial independence and exhibited great success at being entrepreneurs and business owners. With that success, pushback from whites in the form of outright violence, disruption and other unamerican activities created huge problems for black entrepreneurs. There were riots and other actions taken to where entire black communities were burned down just to kneecap their progress and eliminate competition. Reconstruction had its own built in, legal (at the time) laws to inhibit and control freed blacks as well as other laborers.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_race_riot_of_1919

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Summer

    https://www.howardzinn.org/labor-da...yd1byZrhp0HTvXsV0sRlnLVmERiVyezJ_IwpgaysmXNeE

    Anyone who thinks that we've always operated under a strict meritocracy where all it takes is hard work, effort and motivation is unaware of the legacy of our history. That history applies to all races, creeds, etc. I'm sure every once in a while a coal miner in West Virginia has managed to rise up and buy a few mining claims, but for 99% of them, it's a tough life with little upward mobility.
     
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  2. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    You sure changed this thread around to meet some off tangent agenda. How or why do you think throwing enough sh!t at the fan, something will finally be in your favor ?? What's that definition of doing something over and over and over again is what ?? You need a vacation or just go chill out for a while. You just aren't making any sense with your cross-circuiting deliberations. I'm sure there might be a common thread, but to go in all the directions you try in one thread alone, is quite exhausting. It must be tough, being you.
    :pops_blinking:
     
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  3. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    Toad is race baiting, taking the subject with all of the articles he has shown and waiting for someone to argue with him so he can start calling them a racist. He has done it before. Toad says he has been a race relations expert for 20 years. Just another metal to add to his chest while he watches the May Day parade from the leader’s viewing platform.
     
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  4. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

    You're just too stupid to see those cross connections or any other connection that doesn't fit your narrow world view. You two fools can try and make this about me, but the reality is that the discussion moved past you both after about the second post.
     
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  5. unclebun

    unclebun Active Member

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    While it is true that after emancipation blacks were initially successful and did well, and that the previously pro-slavery people or people who had believed the widely prevalent idea that blacks were racially inferior to whites (this was true everywhere, not just here, and is a belief that persisted widely in Europe even up through and after World War II) pushed back with Jim Crow laws and such, blacks are not the only ones to have been treated adversely.

    Take a look at the history of the Chinese in this country, who first started coming here with the Gold Rush, and later were used as almost slave labor to build the railroad from the west side. After they displayed their work ethic and business acumen, and started building numbers in many western cities (and New York), federal laws (not just state laws as with Jim Crow laws) were enacted like the Anti-Coolie Act of 1862, the Burlingame Treaty of 1868, the Page Act of 1875, the Angell Act of 1880, and the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, which was extended in 1892 and made permanent law in 1902, until the Magnuson Act of 1943 repealed it and allowed 105 Chinese peryear to enter the country.

    Yet despite that, the Chinese have made it so they are no longer held down in any way, and indeed are outperforming in many areas.

    Though white, Irish immigrants didn't always have the "white privilege" either. Many came as slaves and Irish were looked on with disdain by other whites as inferior, poor, uneducated, incorrigible, and so on.

    Having been dealt a bad lot by other people groups does not have to result in permanent disadvantage of that people group. Even with the black people group, one cannot say that such perceived disadvantage is universal.

    That's all a long way of saying that pulling the race card is weak, and it also isn't really the issue in the income inequality argument today. What has happened there has occurred in the last 2-3 decades. Though there were many underlying influences in our economy, the real accelerants towards the current situation were the federalization of poverty, and the whole subculture it created, the federalization of insurance, first with Medicare, then its influence on health insurance through the 60's and 70's, culminating with the ACA, which almost completed the goal of forcing America to believe the only solution for delivering good health care was socialized medicine run and paid for by the government. Along with that we had in 1963 Murray v. Curlett which kicked off the whole separation of church and state movement, which has resulted in the huge moral decline in our society that has resulted in a loss of altruism throughout the whole society. That, in turn, has affected the education received in all levels, but of interest, at the business school level. Thus you had our top business schools in the 1980's teaching their MBA's the whole corporate merger/rape theory that has vastly reduced competition in the business landscape and began the trend of consolidating money and power in the hands of fewer and fewer people. All those businesses which sprang up and flourished in the post-WWII era were whittled away. Finally, you add in the banking law changes brought about by these same business school types, and then the globalization of everything, and you have the perfect recipe for giving all the money to a very few and removing the ability for ordinary people to participate in America's wealth because their factory jobs provided them the excess needed to either enjoy life and be good consumers, or take an idea and become an entrepreneur themselves. If you couldn't see the predictions back in the Bush 1 days and before of what it meant when they said when America didn't need to do the "dirty" manufacturing any more and we would move to a service economy, you are pretty shortsighted and naive. The rapid increase in real estate prices brought on by things like the internet bubble and the rise of the ultra-rich, along with bailouts that prevented such overinflated prices on real estate and medicine from falling back to where they should have when the economy went into recession have also served to make things far too expensive for the wage earner.
     
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  6. rossmosh

    rossmosh Active Member

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    I'm going to make one more attempt to get the point across about income equality, not go off topic, and why everyone posting here should care about it, A LOT.

    Think of everyone you know. Your friends, family, neighbors, co-workers, everyone. Statistically speaking, they're "all" essentially making less money per year than they would have 30-40 years ago doing the same or similar job. This is a result of essentially no wage growth while expenses continuing to increase while cost of entering the job market as increased dramatically.

    So do you care about your friends, family, neighbors, and co-workers? If you do, then you should care about income inequality.
     
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  7. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Now, now toad..... don't get too carried away. Afterall, this is a sign forum. Calling people names doesn't make you superior. In fact, as we all know, it puts you well at the bottom of the pile.

    No one ever said this was about you. In fact, just the total opposite. YOU make this stuff about you and how almighty you are with your supercilious discussion(s). Just listen to yourself and then read all the copy & paste crap you're constantly putting out there, like some propaganda machine. Not a single thought from your own head, as you have none, as we can all see.

    Believe me, I'm not too stupid, you're just too gullible and anxious to argue about things you've only scratched on the surface. You have no substance or credibility from which to pull, therefore..... we just see more copy & paste crap from you.
     
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  8. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    And Toad, you always paste up or quote the rules of engagement on here about rule #5 I believe and you called your fellow members "fools".
    You race baited me before and got SignSupport to back you with even SignSupport sent me a pm and called me a racist and he/she was black and was banned for 5 days. And since you don't have anything else to say from your own thoughts you figured you might go fishing. So I am warning the other fish in the pond not to take your bait.
    Or maybe has to do what Uncle Bun said about the Irish came as slaves and were looked on with disdain by other whites as inferior, poor, uneducated, incorrigible, since I did mention in another post about my DNA is almost full Irish. So maybe thats where you fall into that slot. And I still think you are a nasty little man.
     
  9. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

    It's all connected to each other. It also is no coincidence that the victims of all that discrimination at the lower class levels are still struggling. If you've ever been to San Francisco, you'll find no shortage of poor, menial laborers of Chinese descent. On the east coast, descendants of poor Portugese fishermen struggle to lift themselves above certain levels. Discrimination is the rope that is used to hobble certain groups perceived as undesirable or inferior.

    It is far more a class issue than race, but it doesn't help that racial animus and anxiety has been a key component of keeping certain populations down for centuries. Some here make it seem like everybody stood at the starting line of a race at Ellis Island and had a truly equal chance at winning.

    I never meant to single out any one race of Americans either other than to illustrate that some disadvantaged communities have had far more roadblocks to progress thrown in their path. A key distinction is the Irish. Many came here as "indentured servants" and were NOT slaves. They had their steerage paid for and a set time period of servitude to pay it back. They lived in the big house, did more skilled labor and were not classified as "property" by the plantation owner for tax purposes. Once free of their debt, they were able to move anywhere they wanted and there weren't bounty hunters looking to capture them and return them to the their "owner".
     
  10. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    This in no way encompasses all of the income Inequality but is certainly a large part of it:

    Fact 1: Every 3rd world/ poor country, without exception, has the worst income Inequality.
    Fact 2: Every 3rd world/ poor county, without exception, has an overabundance of cheap labor.
    Fact 3: America’s middle class was built by the industries that created machinery for the automation of labor, creating Middle class tech jobs.
    Because of our shortage of labor, it forced other companies to invest in that automation.
    (About 25 years ago, when China wanted to become a industrial power house, they actually banned migration of their countryside “peasants” into the cities, forcing their industries to invest in automation.)

    So what changed?
    1. Women entered into the workforce, almost doubling the available workforce (not blaming them, just stating a fact).
    2. While almost every politician in recent history has stumped on getting tough on illegal immigration,
    with a wink and a nod to their rich friends, they have basically created an open border, that has negated
    every working class persons bargaining power.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  11. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  12. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

    How did you define "income inequality" to arrive at your "facts"? The attached list has a whole slew of developing and poor countries with better equality than we do.

    When did China ban internal migration? I can't seem to find a significant source for that.

    What does the working and economic conditions in the developing world have to do with whether or not our modern era top 1% will ever live up to their promise of good paying, stable jobs in exchange for perpetual generous tax treatment?

    We the people made a bargain with the captains of industry and government leadership about 40 years ago when this experiment in supply side economics was first launched. We'd keep working our tails off, they'd get their taxes reduced greatly, we'd get to maintain some semblance of the social stability we had grown to expect and not riot in the streets and string them all up if they reneged on their promises. We're getting pretty close to the last part if they all don't start spreading the wealth out a little.

    Here is the list of countries and where the U.S. falls out of 149 samples. We're right in the middle, but given our overall wealth and high productivity, one would think we'd be way down the list closer to the most equitable and fair.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...e-country-with-the-worlds-worst-inequality-is
     
  13. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    forum.jpg
     
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  14. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    Tim's practicing running for office. Just think about it, if he couldn't come on here and spend all day arguing politics, some poor sap that works for him or a family member would have to hear all of this... we're doing them a favor and probably saving a life...
     
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  15. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    Tim thanks for your thoughtful questions.
    This list illustrates my post, we are not at the top (bottom?) of the list as we once were, due to the over abundance of labor, had that list been made in the 50s, the devide would have been one of the smallest.
    I listen to podcast and read articles endlessly, I will try and find a source

    I'm not aware of that promise... But I do know that the top 1% pays 50% of the federal taxes... The top 10% pays 90% of the federal taxes, while the bottom 50% gets "tax welfare" receiving more money back in refunds than they paid in.
    Edited to say, I need to confirm that, I'm quoting from memory.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  16. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    TotalFederalTaxesIncomeTaxesIncome2011.png
     

    Attached Files:

  17. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

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    Not sure if china actually banned internal immigration in the literal sense but they definately limit it in the cities. Its similar to our farm worker programs but the labor comes from their countryside vs another country. The companies bring in the workers from the country, house them in dorms, feed them and charge them back for all of it. Its full of abuse. You cant freely move about in China to go work in the cities. Its a pretty interesting country, almost as if they are engineering their economy based on what we have done and finding flaws that they can control. Their entire highway system is a knockoff of the USA’s, no way thats the only aspect of our country they have looked at.
     
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  18. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    Tim, I couldn't find the specific reference to China's limits on rural to urban migration to boost their industrial boom, I will keep looking, but I believe it was the hukou system.
     
  19. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    It just occurred to me... I wonder if we were to remove all of America's infamously over-paid, left leaning professionals from the equation what would happen to the gap? Such as: Movie stars, writers & executives. Rock & rap stars. Sport teams. Dot com billionaires. Silicon executives. Ect. Ect.
     
  20. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

    You mean like Clint Eastwood, Bruce Willis, kid rock, Robert kraft, jerry jones, Larry Ellison, the Koch Bros, etc.

    I think most people would be very surprised to see a list of conservatives occupying those same professions.
     

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