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Industry Topic................

Marlene

New Member
the customer bought the artwork, the other shop agreed that the customer owned it. (other shop was you) unless you posted that you designed the job, I don't see why this other shop feels it has the right to ask you to pull the photo. if it is posted as an example of a wrap or vehicle lettering, then it is what you are showing, not an example of art work created. if you showed a Coca-Cola truck or a Verizon truck that you lettered, it would be the same.

add "logo design by others" to the photo. I sure wouldn't give this pinhead any advertising on your page.

the above is what I posted in that thread.


Marlene, you say, - "I wish other shops would do the same and not steal my work when it is shown to them. there is another shop that has my design for a housing development on their site." - but when a member posted last week that he was surprised that I had complained in a private email to him about his using my designs as his examples on his website, you told him I was just some whining pinhead. No wonder we are all confused about what we can and what we should not do as far as using others art and ideas

you sold the logo and the rights to use the logo. I did not sell my design or the rights to it isn't the same at all.

there is no reason to ask another shop to take down a photo of a job they did with a customer owned logo. the only reason would be if the other shop, which it didn't, claimed to have designed the logo.
 

TheSellOut

New Member
There are so many laws, and grey areas, surrounding copyrighting that it makes my head spin thinking about it. So in my business, if I didn't create the image or if I don't have the proper permission to use it, then I don't reproduce it!

Now in my personal life I see no wrong in creating things like in the images below, even though they are based off of copyrighted characters! The 1st is a cake my wife made, along with the purple gift bags, and the second two are invites that I made which we created to go along with our daughter's 2nd birthday theme!
 

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Gino

Premium Subscriber
I think you're safe on that one.........

Who at that party could read your banner ?? :Oops:​
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
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I could be wrong but I have always considered personal use of copyrighted materials to fall under the same rules as recording a TV show or putting my CD music on my computer. As long as you are not doing it for someone else or redistributing it, it is allowed.
 

WrapperX

New Member
I could be wrong but I have always considered personal use of copyrighted materials to fall under the same rules as recording a TV show or putting my CD music on my computer. As long as you are not doing it for someone else or redistributing it, it is allowed.

I think this is where the line is drawn. It becomes an issue of the law when you start to promote that you are a distributor of Trade marked/Copy righted images for a profit. WHen you start putting yourself out there as a dealer of such images and when you are taking money for an item that you are not giving credit too. Or Royalties too.
I guess the point being if you are the one sign shop creating certain images and are selling the service of decals and not so much the service of distributing copyrighted images then there's a gray area that you can skate by on. These corporations aren't necessarilly going to come after you for selling some Calvin peeing on Ford knock offs for $20. But start mass producing those, start making that a solid portion of your business income and you should expect to see some lawyers walking through your door.
As for taking other sign shops images - where as it's pretty unethical and shouldn't be done. (And I wouldn't do it personally) It's one of those gray areas that makes you wonder - is said shop gonna go through the hassal of lawyering up to get other shop from using a redraw or reedit of questionable art?

I just think it would be easier to sell the art with the sign and make the customer happy to the point where you shouldn't have to worry about them going to guy across the street after they have worked with you. If your business practices are sound, your completions timely and your pricing fair, mind you I didn't say cheap or even best I said fair, then you should be able to keep most customers in your store with your/their art and their corporate brand/identity. I understand copyright issues. But I also feel that it's more about trapping a customer and saying "I made this, and although you paid for some of it through the sign or whatever you had us do, I still own this and therefore I own your business branding and everything that you have put it on and if you don't like it too bad and if you don't like me then I will make you pay out the ass to get away from me and use what I made for you". Then it is about ethical and or moral business practices. Again if your practices are good, and you make a good product people will come back. not because they have to but because you make them feel good about doing business with you.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
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I could be wrong but I have always considered personal use of copyrighted materials to fall under the same rules as recording a TV show or putting my CD music on my computer. As long as you are not doing it for someone else or redistributing it, it is allowed.


I kinda agree....... and would like to add one more point.


  • As long as there is no monetary or any other type of gain. Keeping it for personal use and personal use only and not broadcasting and selling tickets.... you should be fine.
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
I kinda agree....... and would like to add one more point.


  • As long as there is no monetary or any other type of gain. Keeping it for personal use and personal use only and not broadcasting and selling tickets.... you should be fine.

The line I draw is doing it for anyone else ... period. Whether for pay or not, you still should not even do it for friends for free. I might, for example, print and cut a Dolphins logo and put it on my own vehicle but I won't do the same for the next door neighbor.
 

Bigdawg

Just Me
The line I draw is doing it for anyone else ... period. Whether for pay or not, you still should not even do it for friends for free. I might, for example, print and cut a Dolphins logo and put it on my own vehicle but I won't do the same for the next door neighbor.

That's where I stand on this... irregardless of the legalities.

I am an ass about copyrighted stuff in our shop. It's just easier to not do it and not worry...
 

signswi

New Member
What you need to understand is that while an old painting isn't protected by copyright, the image you find on the internet is. If you did not photograph the source image yourself, then you need a license from the photographer or whomever owns the rights to the photo.

Photography of art is exceptionally tricky. You have three layers:

1) The Rights of the Artist (including the always tricky rights of attribution and integrity)
2) The Rights of the Copyright Holder (sometimes the owner of the work, not always, depends on contracts)
3) The Rights of the Photographer (sometimes the actual photographer, often not as many work-for-hire or may have sold the rights)

All three have to be cleared to use an image.
 
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Gino

Premium Subscriber
The line I draw is doing it for anyone else ... period. Whether for pay or not, you still should not even do it for friends for free. I might, for example, print and cut a Dolphins logo and put it on my own vehicle but I won't do the same for the next door neighbor.


I thought that's what I was saying...... I was just continuing your statement by adding for personal use only without any monetary gain.

Over the years, I remember giving a print of a Dallas football helmet to a friend of mine whose kid was very sick and had a year or so to live. I don't think anyone would've stopped me on that one.

Another time....many years ago, I hand painted a bunch of Disney characters on a sled for a little kid. My parents bought the sled and I painted it for them to give to him.

Another, I hand painted almost all of the Disney cartoon characters on both sides of a bus going to Disney World, Florida. My sister's school band was in a competition down there and they weren't bothered at all by anyone.

It certainly depends on the situation, but to keep it legal, I would do as Stacy says and not offer or turn them away if someone asks.
 
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