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Install 4 x18 on brick wall

Discussion in 'Installation Equipment & Techniques' started by rokit, Dec 26, 2020.

  1. rokit

    rokit New Member

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    I need to install a large sign on a brick warehouse wall. I'm going to rent lift to install it and I'm looking for tips/techniques for lifting the sign and positioning it from the lift until I fasten it. I'm thinking I'll use .063 aluminum and 3/16 or 1/4 tapcons into the masonry. Any advice would be appreciated
     
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  2. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    If you are going to rent a lift, why don't you use that? You can fire 2 or 3 tapcons into the brick to rest the sign panel on after its lifted in place.
     
  3. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

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    So it will be installed in individual 4x8 panels flat on a wall? Depending on height ladders would be fine. But my concern would be the finished look of .063 screwed to a brick wall.
    I would try to talk the client into a sign on a 1x1 tube frame or at least use ACM.
     
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  4. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    We screw treated lumber stringers to the wall. Gino will say that invites birds nests and wasps, but bird nests have never been a problem and I've been doing this for almost 30 years. Then you can attach the faces to the stringers with screws into the wood. Way easier to handle on a multipanel sign rather than having to drill into bricks while holding the sign. Plus, since the sign faces will need refurbishing/replacement in 5-10 years, it's a lot less trouble, since the stringers will last way longer than that. I also think the sign looks a lot better and more professional if it's not flat on the wall. In addition, the wood stringers will even out any unevenness in the surface coming from the masonry. When you put up the faces, it may seem most direct to start at one end and go to the other, but it's a better technigue to put the center one up first. Put your 4x8 as the center panel, prestart a screw in the exact center at the height of the top stringer, and screw it to the top stringer exactly in the center. The panel will balance while you level it and put the second screw in. Then once you've put all the screws in you add the end panels by butting them against the center panel and lining up the letters or images that cross the seam. Hot tip: before you letter the panels, check that the ends are actually cut square. They don't always come from the factory that way.
     
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  5. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    ACM on wood stringers are the way I'd go too. Brick would make lining up the panels a PITA, plus the depth is uneven.

    If I'm doing flat signs, I do like mentioned before...shoot tapcons in the brick so they stick out and use that to rest the sign on. If it's multiple panels, you can screw a long peice of angle on there to create a shelf for the panels to rest on...that automatically makes them straight. I have a straight edge that when screwed against the wall, creates little 1/4 pocket that holds the signs flat.
     
  6. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    I would use 2" × 6" battens, but up and down, not across. It does not prevent bird nests or wasp nests or anything else, but it makes it much easier to clean out if they do build back there. Keep the edges in maybe 2" from the top and bottom. If you go direct onto the brick, the sign will be so wavey, it will look very poor up there and probably reflect light off it in all directions.

    Edit: oh, and I'm doing it about 48 years............​
     
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  7. Jer Barlow

    Jer Barlow New Member

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    What ever you do you need two "z"s made of 1/8x2 steel strap x 4' long. one end hooks over the guard rail and drapes below giving you a hanger to hold the sign from the lift. Mine go with me anywhere I use a lift. A bungee or a hand keeps the blank in place when in the air.
     
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  8. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    can you post a pic?
     
  9. Jer Barlow

    Jer Barlow New Member

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    Kinda stupid simple. Great when the wind blows.
     

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  10. rokit

    rokit New Member

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    Wow! Thanks so much for all of the suggestions! I thought I subscribed for e-mail alerts on this and just now checked back. Originally they wanted to re-use the back of their old sign which (it turns out) was .080 but it was on a flat aluminum siding. They wanted me to re-use the old sign but it was joined in the middle wit a splice piece so I cut it to take it down.

    The brick on the new building is fairly textured so the concerns for it laying flat are certainly valid. due to the shape of their logo I think I'm going to suggest a 40ish x 16' (instead of 18' replacement). I'm concerned about the composite stuff dimpling and if I put wood strips on the building first I would think i should go around the whole perimeter due to wind? The other sign they had was plywood? How about that?

    I think i really prefer tapcons for masonry just because I've worked with them before.

    And I didn't mention that the sign is about 20' in the air so I really prefer a lift. I've already included the cost of the lift rental and the customer agreed.
     
  11. visual800

    visual800 Very Active Member

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    I need to know how large sign is
     
  12. rokit

    rokit New Member

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    New sign will be 40" x 16' or 18'
     
  13. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    That sorta changes a lotta things. You first said 4' × 18' now, it's grown to 40 ' ×16'.
     
  14. balstestrat

    balstestrat Active Member

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    Between the bits
    It's actually got smaller if you look real close ;) 40" x 16' or 18'
     
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  15. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    I was on my tablet yet, thought it said 40'. I hate that thing.................. Yep, it's smaller.

    Who in their right mind mixes inches with feet in the same spec ??​
     
  16. signage

    signage Major Contributor

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    Millennials
     
  17. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    It's maddening!
    I do it most days...
     
  18. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    Personally I wouldn't waste time cutting the panels down to 40". Nothing wrong with negative space. The stringers do not go around the perimeter of the sign unless you are trying to create a solid shape (which would require painting the stringers). But making the perimeter is unnecessary work and precision. Three rows of 2x4's. Top and bottom ones a couple or three inches in from the edge of the panels, and shorter at the ends by the same amount. Attach to the wall with your tapcons. Then attach the ACM to the stringers with 15 screws per 4x8 (rows of five screws starting an inch in from the ends, halfway and half that). Add another screw per row for a 4x10. We use truss washer lath screws 1" or 1.25" long. Paint the heads to match the sign if you want to avoid criticism on Signs101, but it is unnecessary for signs which are up high or only viewed from a distance. The wind will not affect the sign.
     
  19. visual800

    visual800 Very Active Member

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    I would do a 1" aluminum frame with a support running vertical along the joint ONLY IF the brick were not smooth. This is the most economical way to insure your panels will look great
     
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