Install sign off or approval processes?

[Texas_Signmaker]

Agreed, this is 100% the installers fault, if he can't install a very basic vinyl graphic level I would start looking for another installer. Since he is a contractor, in theory he should be paying you for another print, and reinstalling it at no charge, but good luck with that.

I would reprint it and tell the installer he is on the hook to reinstall it properly. Does he do good work normally and this is a fluke, or is this install typical for him?

I agree too.

And ask the installer what happened and if they are capable of installing this type of product. If not, then then looks for someone else. I've had this happen a few times with subs, every time they made it right. One company asked for the artwork so they could reprint themselves at their cost. Another time I had to reprint. Sometimes as the one brokering the job, you have to suck up the reprints if something goes wrong. You make sure there is enough fat in the jobs to cover the unknowns.

 

[MGB_LE]

You need to evaluate the problems. With this job, it's obvious there are three problems.

1. The actual end product is just bad. It would be one thing if you're just printing out customer supplied artwork, but it sounds like you're a full service sign shop. Obviously this is a pretty small job, but it's pretty standard practice to have a customer take a quick picture on their phone so you can render in the proof. Takes about an extra 3-5 minutes and prevents this sort of thing from happening.

2. You're not hiring good subs / demanding more from them. Also, people make mistakes. Are you providing them with a 2nd print for mistakes? Maybe it's something you should consider making a standard practice.

3. Realistically, you need to figure out who you want to hold accountable for what. In this circumstance, this isn't on the customer at all. It's on the installer. A customer approves the location of an install and that it's done. They don't make sure everything is 100% level. That's on the installer. But if the customer approved something to be installed in the wrong spot or changed their mind afterwards, that would be on the customer. Again, sit down and figure out who is responsible for what and then figure out how you want to hold them accountable.

We agree that this is on the installer. I have on occasion sent an extra print, but I'd be curious how others handle that. We printed out client supplied artwork, pushed back about the blank space but they insisted. Plain and simple the error was easily avoided and we learned some lessons with this sub. It was an out of town install using a source from the 3M certified installer list (https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/graphics-signage-us/resources/find-an-installer/) It's true that people make mistakes.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Am I the only one fixated on a gigantic print for small black text that should be cut vinyl? It's like a textbook example of why you need to educate your customers. If they balk, you double down with examples and this would be one of them.

 

[Boudica]

Am I the only one fixated on a gigantic print for small black text that should be cut vinyl? It's like a textbook example of why you need to educate your customers. If they balk, you double down with examples and this would be one of them.

I think several people have agreed it should be cut vinyl. Tex is the only one afraid to install it

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I think several people have agreed it should be cut vinyl. Tex is the only one afraid to install it

He also can't see that it's crooked. Tex must have a short leg, at least 2 of them.

 

[Sign consultant]

Curious,did you get completion pics from your subs?
And you can get a sign on paper with artwork approved so you would be safe...

 

[MGB_LE]

Curious,did you get completion pics from your subs?
And you can get a sign on paper with artwork approved so you would be safe...

Completion pics were at an extreme angle. We did get artwork proof approval before printing.

 

[Stacey K]

Out of curiosity, this is a pretty simple install, is there a reason one of you wouldn't try to tackle at least a few easier installs? I'm one person and I do some installs but I don't do too much that requires more than just myself. On actual signs that get screwed into building or set into the ground most of my customers are happy to install them. I used to try and accommodate by hiring my BF or sons or other random people but since I started shying away from that people are perfectly OK doing those installs themselves. Something like you have above a customer would not install, but maybe you should give it a try? Just a thought

 

[MGB_LE]

Out of curiosity, this is a pretty simple install, is there a reason one of you wouldn't try to tackle at least a few easier installs? I'm one person and I do some installs but I don't do too much that requires more than just myself. On actual signs that get screwed into building or set into the ground most of my customers are happy to install them. I used to try and accommodate by hiring my BF or sons or other random people but since I started shying away from that people are perfectly OK doing those installs themselves. Something like you have above a customer would not install, but maybe you should give it a try? Just a thought

The install site for this job was at a client site 275 miles away. This is why we decided to use someone local to the area from the 3M certified installer network. Right now my wide format department is one operator for print and finishing, with my assistance as needed. a San Antonio trip would've been a hardship vs hiring it out. Here, the issue wasn't hiring it out, as we've used this sub successful once before at the same client site. The issue this time was the quality of the work and not checking well enough before leaving.

 

[Stacey K]

Oh gosh yes that’s a far distance for you to drive for double checking or installing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Geneva Olson]

The install site for this job was at a client site 275 miles away. This is why we decided to use someone local to the area from the 3M certified installer network. Right now my wide format department is one operator for print and finishing, with my assistance as needed. a San Antonio trip would've been a hardship vs hiring it out. Here, the issue wasn't hiring it out, as we've used this sub successful once before at the same client site. The issue this time was the quality of the work and not checking well enough before leaving.

3m certified installers don't alway equate to quality work.

 

[Johnny Best]

I do not care what papers were sign offed. You make a mistake like that you redo it. Don't be like a Democrat politician and try to pass it off to someone else. The customer does not know your business ways of brokering work out. Get it fixed for God's sake.

 

[Modern Ink Signs]

Even with the lousy picture, it looks to be off by at least an inch. Totally, unacceptable regardless of who signs off on it. Fire your sub...... NOW.

As for contesting the totally blank vinyl, that is on you for not explaining how dumb that looks. There is no reasoning on their part, you shouldn't be able to refute for having it. Just plain ugly and dumb.


Anyway, here's hoping they don't screw up the paint removing that vinyl.............. that'll be on you, too.

100% agree here.

1.
Looks very armature. Why did you not do this as cut vinyl an apply that? Aren’t you the professional? If this was my client I’d guide them in the correct direction.

2.
Fire the sub. If they can’t do this they should not be in the business. Period.

 

[Geneva Olson]

Am I the only one fixated on a gigantic print for small black text that should be cut vinyl? It's like a textbook example of why you need to educate your customers. If they balk, you double down with examples and this would be one of them.

I noticed that it was off, but the big white block was blaring at me.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Huh?

the little letters (GPS coordinates) on drywall. I don't know what size those are but looks like they'd be too small to stick and stay on. I have PTSD over cut vinyl and drywall.

 

[Boudica]

the little letters (GPS coordinates) on drywall. I don't know what size those are but looks like they'd be too small to stick and stay on. I have PTSD over cut vinyl and drywall.

The whole thing could be scaled up, IMHO. But if vinyl tests are done, you would, and use the one that won't come off.

 

[ikarasu]

I've done 1/8' cut letters on drywall. It's not too bad, if it's super small we usually use a perm vinyl to make sure it sticks.. being so small that come off just as easy as removable.


I just did a job with letters a quarter inch in size... 10 ft long by 6 ft high, a companies "values". It was hundreds if not thousands of letters.... Took me hours to weed it.

I was scared shitless putting it on the wall... All it'd take is to be a bit uneven, or one minor slip up and I'd be there for hours peeling tiny text off the wall and redoing it all from scratch. I don't make mistakes too often, but I just know when I do... It'd be that!


I did a vehicle install today. Not too bad, 3 12" x 6" cut vinyls of their name on two lines. One looked a bit crooked to me... Not sure if the hinge moved or if I just measured wrong. Tore it off and redid it - customer saw me and asked what I was doing... Told him, and he said "it's a construction vehicle, you can put it in sideways and we wouldn't care!". I told him the vinyl costs costs us a few bucks,. What he's paying for is service, so we don't half ass it (at least on purpose). Took a whopping 5 mins to recut and put on.

Being 250 miles away, I'm sure the installer saw it was crooked and didn't say much because he hoped it'd be ok. I get it, it's shitty.. but if he's new with working for you, he might think you'll chew his head off and demand he pays for a new decal. Not justifying what he did, I just understand why.

Reach out, tell him client complained... You'll send him a new one, and ask if he thinks he can redo it.

 

[Moze]

My two cents: Anyone installing signs for another sign company should take full responsibility of the signage once they've received it and confirmed its in good condition. The sign company did their part in getting the signage safely to the installer. After that, the full responsibility of the signage falls on the installer. If they put vinyl up crooked, if they install a sign on the wrong wall, if a sign is damaged while in their possession, etc, I feel the installer should be responsible for any resulting expenses required to make things right. At the very least, they should offer to do so. There's no reason the manufacturer should have to pay for issues caused by the installer.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

My two cents: Anyone installing signs for another sign company should take full responsibility of the signage once they've received it and confirmed its in good condition. The sign company did their part in getting the signage safely to the installer. After that, the full responsibility of the signage falls on the installer. If they put vinyl up crooked, if they install a sign on the wrong wall, if a sign is damaged while in their possession, etc, I feel the installer should be responsible for any resulting expenses required to make things right. At the very least, they should offer to do so. There's no reason the manufacturer should have to pay for issues caused by the installer.

Asking for a friend...but what if you got a sign face and made a small spot on it that wasn't visible to anyone unless you got on top of the sign? I had a pan face that has two very small discoloration spots (about 1/2 inch from me trying to remove a paint splatter.) It was at the top of the pan face and only visible if you stood on a ladder looking down on it. 100% not visible from any normal viewpoint. Where do you draw the line and say the installer is responsible for replacement of the entire thing? On the flip side, I have replaced things that installers did that was very minor but for some reason my customer got something up their ass about it and I knew it was ridiculous to replace it so I just sucked it up and covered it. Back to the original question, I discounted my invoice the entire cost of the face, which was three times the amount I charged to install, but told them to find someone else to handle the new face because I don't want to risk handling another one with such a picky customer. .. or I mean my friend did.

 

[Moze]

Asking for a friend...but what if you got a sign face and made a small spot on it that wasn't visible to anyone unless you got on top of the sign? I had a pan face that has two very small discoloration spots (about 1/2 inch from me trying to remove a paint splatter.) It was at the top of the pan face and only visible if you stood on a ladder looking down on it. 100% not visible from any normal viewpoint. Where do you draw the line and say the installer is responsible for replacement of the entire thing? On the flip side, I have replaced things that installers did that was very minor but for some reason my customer got something up their *** about it and I knew it was ridiculous to replace it so I just sucked it up and covered it. Back to the original question, I discounted my invoice the entire cost of the face, which was three times the amount I charged to install, but told them to find someone else to handle the new face because I don't want to risk handling another one with such a picky customer. .. or I mean my friend did.

I think if the spot your friend made is somewhere that no one will ever see it and it's not going to cause any future corrosion or discoloration due to exposed metal or some such thing, then no, I don't think that merits notifying the customer or anything along those lines.

There are obviously shades of gray requiring some discernment.