Installing graphics on glass

[Tony Rome]

So I have done a few of these installs. Multiple panels of glass on a storefront, wanted to ask some questions. The job I just did was 8 panels 45" x 45" (continuous design separated by the framing).

1. Is calendared vinyl an option or must I always use cast? Looking to get 5-7 years out of the install.
2. Do you install to the very edge or do you rim to leave a little bit of the glass showing?
3. Do you always print the graphic bigger and trim or do you print the same size of the window?
4. I have seen some installs where people use a think black tape (looks like duct tape but oonly about .25" to cover the space between the rubber seal and the print, I am guessing that is to cover the small area of glass, do you do this?

Here is my opinion on my own questions just so I am not being lazy and picking your brain.

1. Calendared is OK but the correct way is cast for long term installation if the customer is willing to pay. If they are looking for a more economical solution, I can offer calendared and explain it may shrink in time and will not last quite as long.

2 & 3. Print about an inch or two bigger and trim back after install. Leave a little of the glass showing.

4. The tape is something new I have seen, but I thought it was a pretty good idea, really curious to hear our opinion using this and where to get it?

If I am correct, a really need to find a good tool (don't say a razor, haha) or good method to use to trim so that my lines are straight. I have tried using my squeegee as a straight edge running it along side the rubber seal but if I want a space between the rubber seal this does not work as well.

One thing I wanted to point out to help others that are new (will be obvious to experienced installers)...
I was out doing an install and it got up to 90 degrees and the vinyl was a pain to work with, it took me almost 40 minutes to do one panel. Went back the next day to finish and purposely went earl when i twas around 75 degrees and did that same size panel in 15 minutes. Keep outside and glass temperature in mind. The vinyl will be tough to work with when too hot. Not to mention I have a bad sunburn, lol.

Appreciate all your helpful contributions. Look forward to hearing your methods.
Including a link HERE of what the job was like for reference....
http://sentrysigninstallers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Window-Graphics-Corner-Mall-Shop-Crop.jpg

 

[Active Sign]

1. Calendared vinyl is fine if it is the good stuff. IJ40C or the Orajet equivalent, don’t touch the Arlon. Ink will fade after 4 years and look bad after 5 years. Also, the vinyl will be difficult to remove after 5 years. Best to change out ads and graphics every couple years, the ad does get very “stale” and people stop looking - keep it fresh!

2. We usually bleed the image and trim off the excess with an xacto or other small sharp blade.

3. The black tape idea is interesting never thought of it.

4. If it’s hot out, soak it with water and a few drops of baby shampoo


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[ikarasu]

So I have done a few of these installs. Multiple panels of glass on a storefront, wanted to ask some questions. The job I just did was 8 panels 45" x 45" (continuous design separated by the framing).

1. Is calendared vinyl an option or must I always use cast? Looking to get 5-7 years out of the install.
2. Do you install to the very edge or do you rim to leave a little bit of the glass showing?
3. Do you always print the graphic bigger and trim or do you print the same size of the window?
4. I have seen some installs where people use a think black tape (looks like duct tape but oonly about .25" to cover the space between the rubber seal and the print, I am guessing that is to cover the small area of glass, do you do this?

Here is my opinion on my own questions just so I am not being lazy and picking your brain.

1. Calendared is OK but the correct way is cast for long term installation if the customer is willing to pay. If they are looking for a more economical solution, I can offer calendared and explain it may shrink in time and will not last quite as long.

2 & 3. Print about an inch or two bigger and trim back after install. Leave a little of the glass showing.

4. The tape is something new I have seen, but I thought it was a pretty good idea, really curious to hear our opinion using this and where to get it?

If I am correct, a really need to find a good tool (don't say a razor, haha) or good method to use to trim so that my lines are straight. I have tried using my squeegee as a straight edge running it along side the rubber seal but if I want a space between the rubber seal this does not work as well.

One thing I wanted to point out to help others that are new (will be obvious to experienced installers)...
I was out doing an install and it got up to 90 degrees and the vinyl was a pain to work with, it took me almost 40 minutes to do one panel. Went back the next day to finish and purposely went earl when i twas around 75 degrees and did that same size panel in 15 minutes. Keep outside and glass temperature in mind. The vinyl will be tough to work with when too hot. Not to mention I have a bad sunburn, lol.

Appreciate all your helpful contributions. Look forward to hearing your methods.
Including a link HERE of what the job was like for reference....
http://sentrysigninstallers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Window-Graphics-Corner-Mall-Shop-Crop.jpg

1 - people get caught up in the cast vs calandered debate. For flat surfaces calandered is ok. Its not as conformable as cast, so it's not always good... But using a good calandered such as 3ms ij40, it's rated at 7 (maybe 5?)years, and will work perfectly. A $100 mono calandered will fail in weeks... A 3m, or Avery calandered will be ok. Check the product specs for itals life expectancy.


2 - it's best to cut 1/8 away. The rubber has silicone... And if the vinyl even touches It, the glue is compromised. We've done some temp graphics right to the edge... And after 6-12 months it's always lifting a little bit. I can't imagine how it'd be after a couple years.

3 - we always print and trim. You don't need to... But let's say you miss it your graphics, or you need a bit of play to fix a slight curve, it's better to go big. Trimming takes a couple minutes... And most of the time your only wasting ink, which with a small bleed is a couple pennies, not a big deal. Where if you cut a 4x4 too short and don't have a buffer... Well, your out 10 sqft of media.

4 - never seen black tape used as a sealer. We have used edge tape from 3m before, it's optically clear and gives it a bit of an extra layer of protection from lifting. Its not always needed though.

Generally we use a razer... After enough practice you can rest your hand on the spacer bar and do a straight enough cut. When I first started we had various length of small 2x4s, we'd just hold it up and cut so it's straight. Yellotools makes a tool that looks awesome for it.. I believe it was:

SasserCut Pro

They may have a better option, just look through all their cutters .I haven't used one... We don't do enough windows to justify it anymore, but I always wanted one!

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I do this all day long. I like to keep a small bleed, like .5". I trim up to the rubber gasket. Most ads I do won't be up for more then a few years so calendared is fine, and easier to work with in the heat. Cast is a pain in the butt in the sun.

 

[Tony Rome]

Thanks for the replies so far, good conversations.
Check this out, pretty interesting.
Window Cut-Back Tools | Wrap Institute

 

[Tony Rome]

Thanks for all the feedback.
Some of you have shared a tool that you use, or a method, some have not.
Wondering, besides freehand cut, those that did not share or are just reading this...
What tool/method do you use to make sure your cuts are straight.
I am not comfortable with using my finger to slide down along the rubber seal.
I like the Perfect window Perf cutting Tool but think .25" is to much of a gap on this type of installation.
I was thinking of using a metal ruler, anyone else want to share what they use?
Thanks again!

 

[Bly]

If you're sure of the sizes trim top and one side to size with bleed only on the other edges.
Then you can slide it into place knowing it will be square and just trim the 2 edges.

 

[AKwrapguy]

Thanks for all the feedback.
Some of you have shared a tool that you use, or a method, some have not.
Wondering, besides freehand cut, those that did not share or are just reading this...
What tool/method do you use to make sure your cuts are straight.
I am not comfortable with using my finger to slide down along the rubber seal.
I like the Perfect window Perf cutting Tool but think .25" is to much of a gap on this type of installation.
I was thinking of using a metal ruler, anyone else want to share what they use?
Thanks again!

You can try the one from Geekwraps. It has two different slits. We use is on our perf window graphics and you can't even tell. Have not tried it on solid graphic window but I agree it might be too much.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I've tried straight edges and freehand. It takes a while but freehand, once I mastered it, is much cleaner and quicker. It took me a while to develop the skill of how to hold the knife along the weather stripping. Im right handed and use that to cut and I run my left index finger just above where I cut because it helps me "visualize" where the cut needs to go and keeps me straight.

The straight edge was too heavy to keep straight, rulers were clumsey... That and often the weather stripping is not straight and has curves in it. (Once I was working early in the morning before the particular store opened, and I accidentally set off the glass break sensor by slapping the straight edge against the window. I was caught off guard when the cops showed up!) Too me, using the knife to freehand, it took about 50 windows to get decent at trimming, and after about 100 to get quick and professional.

I've learned to not be stingy with blades.. I get a new one every 3 windows or so.


Also, FWIW.. I use the Bill Collector from fellers to apply perf. I start by removing 12" of backing from the top of the panel, and use that to stick it to the top of the window after visually getting it straight along the top... Then I very lightly run the bill collector from the center out, advancing about 12" down each time. I found that using a small felt squeege and firm pressure would almost ensure wrinkles somewhere down the line. Very light pressure works well for me, then go back once applied and use firm. I can usually apply an average window in about 5 mins and trim in about the same.

 

[JTBoh]

Whenever possible, we peel the weather stripping and install underneath. You'd be surprised at how often we can do this.

Been looking at this since ISA... fun toy but really no need for it.
MagTape Ruler