Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
How much do you guys charge for installs for big events?
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installs only
- Thread starter Geneva Olson
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Superior_Adam
New Member
pricing doesn't change for a trade show vs any other type of install. We charge by the hour including travel on all installs.
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
If you're charging by the hour, you're leaving money on the table.
We are doing an install only, none of our material will be used.
We are doing an install only, none of our material will be used.
Superior_Adam
New Member
So, if we are not providing any material and only installing provided materials how are we leaving money on the table charging by the hour. What do you charge for outside of labor hours? If we get a job where we print vinyl we charge each separate. I quote the print job and another line item for install. I do not give a hard number on install just that we charge X amount per hour. We can give an estimate of how long it might take but also have a line saying it is only an estimate of the hours it might take.
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
Ok...so if you charge by the hour: let's say the job takes you (2) 8 hour days = 16 hours. charging by the hour, $125/ hour, thats $2000. Most people, for labor only, charge by the sf. i've got 3200 sf of material. The going rate is anywhere between $3sf and $7sf. That's what you're leaving on the table.
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Superior_Adam
New Member
Depends on what you charge per hour. We charge a higher per hour rate on provided material since we are not making money on the product as well as the difficulty of the install. Depends on what part of the country you are in as well because $9,000 to $22,000 based on your numbers won't work here you would not get any work to just install provided materials.
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
What's the incentive of charging by the hour for your customer? they want you in and out.
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
Installation Pricing
I have been asked to print and install a large wall graphic 8' high x 60' long. I would be printing this in 52" x 8' tiles with 1/2" overlap. My question is what to charge for installation, I have never done one this big, do i discount my normal rate of $5.00 sq/ft? Most of the work we have...
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in the comments I found my answer
Superior_Adam
New Member
the customer doesn't dictate when I am in and out I do. Also look at the replies and not just the one that backs your narrative. AMS replied that his vinyl labor rate for 2 people is $80/hr. solo said his crew can do 3,000sqft wall in 1 day. 10sacer said he charges $400/hr + travel and cleared $8 million in sales. You based per hour of $125 which is cheap. It really all depends on how you look at it and how the customer views it. I can charge $7/ft on a 3,000sqft wall, 2-man crew and have it done in 1 day (per a response in your quote) and the customer isn't going to be upset that they just paid $21,000 for 1 day labor for a 2 man crew? That is over $1,000/hr for each worker.
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
that's exactly what I'm saying. We aren't paying our employees that. That's what we make from the job.
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Superior_Adam
New Member
This whole conversation is about what to charge the customer not company profit. If your company is profiting $1000 + per hour, hats off to you but that is not realistic in all areas of the country.
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just looking for what people typically charge. You seem to be out of the norm. Thanks for your input.
Superior_Adam
New Member
It's really not out of the norm though and I am not arguing either. There are different ways to operate, and I can promise that in my area charging that much you would have no work. 34 years of business we must be doing what works with our geographic area. Not everyone charges by the sq ft.
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
Ok. Thanks for your input.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Generally with trade shows and time sensitive turnarounds, most likely the customer will dictate the times. We do one for Drexel U sponsored science fair for several states in the philly area. We get an instal price and a take down price. How many people I take is on me. We are not allowed to use our lifts or buckets to put up the wall signs, so we're at the mercy of the union workers on site that day for machinery..... and believe me, they move like molasses. Normally it takes a full day to set up and about 1/2 a day to tear down. We set up tables for around 1,400 displays. We only have the day before the event and the day after the event. The expo center has someone new coming and going all the time, so we can't dictate a thing. I set the original cost of set up at $3,900 and that's me and 2 other guys. Take down was the same price, but we only take 2 of us. We then take almost all of the things back and store in our basement and charge them $150 a month for storage. I always get the neighbor's kid to unload the trucks and pack them down there. He gets about$75 or $80 and he's a happy camper. Prices have gone up, since the first few times and I think they're moving the whole thing to a different area soon. Okay by me, I'm getting too old for that up & down sh!t.
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
ok so this event, we are putting up vinyl all over the venue. We are using all of their equipment (lifts, etc). Do you charge per sf? and if so, what's your going rate? I saw a flat fee for you, but this is a time crunch too.
kcollinsdesign
Old member
Charging by the hour makes more sense. I'll sometimes use "square footage rates" as a reference, but relying on that for an accurate estimate is a bad idea. Too many variables and costs enter into the equation.
All of my materials and fabrication are outsourced. I use a standard markup (ample to cover COG, labor, overhead, and an adequate profit). The only guess is labor, and I've had enough experience to be able know how long it takes to do something – including surveys, drive time, loading and unloading, material handling, etc.
In your example (assuming the estimate was prepared correctly and factored in all the costs), I would be charging $2000 and making a 20% net profit. You would be charging between $9600 to $22,400. Nobody in their right mind is ever going to award you that job, and if you were unfortunate enough to land the job at that price, the client will hate you forever (and tell everyone they know) once they find out they were screwed!
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
This is for labor only. The customer is providing all of the material. We only have a set amount of time to do the install prior to the event.
kcollinsdesign
Old member
Geneva Olson:
My example was labor only, based on your example of "(2) 8 hour days = 16 hours. charging by the hour, $125/ hour, thats $2000" vs. "I've got 3200 sf of material. The going rate is anywhere between $3sf and $7sf.".
I agree with your point of charging more for a dedicated time slot with zero failure tolerance, and I also charge a premium when installing material provided by the client (might be expensive if I make a mistake).
My contention is that charging by the square foot of material does not take into account all the expenses involved in a job, and it makes more sense to estimate an installation job by figuring out how long it will take (including survey if needed, estimate preparation time, drive time and mileage charge, actual labor on the job, plus premiums for dedicated time slot and using client provided materials).
It certainly takes far less time to estimate a job based on $/sq.ft., but it is not accurate.
In your example, $2000 would be the amount I make if I price it by estimating time (I think $2k might be a little light, but I'm going by your example). If I charged by sq. ft., as you are apparently suggesting, I would make between $9600 to $22,400 (based on your example). The difference is the money I am leaving on the table.
The market will not hold that high of a profit margin (if the job actually took 16 hours). Off the top of my head (not knowing all the particulars), I would guess that would be a $7k – $8k job. Square footage pricing might be useful as a quick reference, but is no substitute for an estimate which should be based on an accurate assessment of projected labor time and costs.
My guess is that your example was way out of whack (16 hours would not be enough time). Usually, my estimates, when compared to published square footage rates, is much closer!
My example was labor only, based on your example of "(2) 8 hour days = 16 hours. charging by the hour, $125/ hour, thats $2000" vs. "I've got 3200 sf of material. The going rate is anywhere between $3sf and $7sf.".
I agree with your point of charging more for a dedicated time slot with zero failure tolerance, and I also charge a premium when installing material provided by the client (might be expensive if I make a mistake).
My contention is that charging by the square foot of material does not take into account all the expenses involved in a job, and it makes more sense to estimate an installation job by figuring out how long it will take (including survey if needed, estimate preparation time, drive time and mileage charge, actual labor on the job, plus premiums for dedicated time slot and using client provided materials).
It certainly takes far less time to estimate a job based on $/sq.ft., but it is not accurate.
In your example, $2000 would be the amount I make if I price it by estimating time (I think $2k might be a little light, but I'm going by your example). If I charged by sq. ft., as you are apparently suggesting, I would make between $9600 to $22,400 (based on your example). The difference is the money I am leaving on the table.
The market will not hold that high of a profit margin (if the job actually took 16 hours). Off the top of my head (not knowing all the particulars), I would guess that would be a $7k – $8k job. Square footage pricing might be useful as a quick reference, but is no substitute for an estimate which should be based on an accurate assessment of projected labor time and costs.
My guess is that your example was way out of whack (16 hours would not be enough time). Usually, my estimates, when compared to published square footage rates, is much closer!