instead of drilling corrugated warehouse for 23" Gemini formed plastic - CAN I TRUST SILICONE & PAD MOUNT ONLY?

[Doug Allan]

If letters do fall off, they don't have too far to fall, & Gemini will warranty even if gluing pads only, but when I expressed concerns, they suggested I add at least 2 holes, so that didn't give me much reassurance.

I'm sure some folks here have faced this, & maybe some have opted for glue only, so I'm hoping for feedback from actual experiences.

I did submit a custom stud placement file, & have the 1-3/4" pads able to land on flat areas, either the raised 3" areas, or the recessed 6" areas, while missing the tapered sections between. The building was just painted 2 weeks ago, & seems in good shape, so maybe glue will work, but I think drilling would be easier if the client doesn't mind, but I told them previously that I didn't think I would need to.

What do others here think?

 

[Terry01]

Done it before with 48" styrene letters 4" thick, cant see why it wouldn't hang on just as good.. I checked google and the signs I fitted 17 years ago are still in place.

 

[Z SIGNS]

Gluing anything is always a crapshoot. To many variables like type of glue, surface your gluing to etc. Might work and might not work. Anyone who tells you it will definitely work is giving you bad advice.
I would follow Geminis suggestion and have at least 2 hole per letter.

 

[James Burke]

VHB in the center of the pad, then put a circle of silicone around the outer edge of the pad (but not too close to the edge). Make sure you clean / prep the metal in the vicinity of the pads.

JB

 

[visual800]

silicone and pads will suffice BUT you have to sand the pads first to insure silicone adheres to pads. back in the day it worked without sanding but not anymore.

 

[FireSprint.com]

As Z SIGNS said, adhesive is a roll of the dice. A lot of variables. Adhesives are a test of your ability to understand and prep a surface.

Most of the time good surface prep and quality materials will do the trick, but even then there are outliers.

I mean no disrespect and encourage good discussion, but as a rule of thumb if you are asking about whether or not you can use adhesives on a forum like this, you should use mechanical fasteners.

Mechanical fasteners are just more reliable and easier to understand.

 

[brdesign]

I would go with a hybrid installation. Drill for just a few studs for each letter, enough to support the weight and prevent the letter from rotating. Then use adhesive pads on all the other stud locations. That way you have mechanical attachment but don't have to drill as many holes in the building.

 

[Gino]

Letters not falling very far, could still hurt someone and that could open a really big can or worms. I'm a firm believe of physical fasteners. If the upper case is 23" the lower case is gonna be about 17" or 18". For plastic letters.... that's still a lotta weight. I vote for all physical fasteners and still put some dollops of silicon on them. Better safe than sorry. Looks like a shadow under that canopy, so it must be getting a fair amount of sun. What will that do to your glue adhesion ??

 

[netsol]

anytimevyour sentence starts with "and if it falls" you are wrong
why ask for trouble

we had a hurricane in 1979 or 1980 & i remember the next door neighbor saying he couldn't believe his new shed was "missing". we found it on top of the other neighbor's brand new cadillac. a few screws won't hurt

sometimes the weather fools you

 

[Stacey K]

If you don't use a physical fastener you might not sleep well the next windy day you have.

I wouldn't worry at all about going back to the customer and changing your plan of action.

You are being responsible by asking others and doing your weight calculations. I like to think customers appreciate such things.

 

[unclebun]

I've done lots of installations on metal buildings like that using just 100% clear silicone and pads. You have to use enough silicone that it squeezes up through the holes in the pad when you press the letter on, and then use masking tape to hold the letters on until the silicone sets.

 

[2B]

that looks like R panel (PBR), I would suggest doing a raceway mount.
there is no back structure / support for hidden studs.

get some 1" U channel, Aluminum, paint the color of the sheet metal,
bolt the letters to the channels, 2 horizontal raceways, and self-tapping screws (again same color as the R Panel) through the channels into the ribs (high points) on the R panel, try to use the existing holes where the lap screws are to minimize the number of holes

what type of paint was used? is it FULLY outgassed?

 

[Scotchbrite]

that looks like R panel (PBR), I would suggest doing a raceway mount.
there is no back structure / support for hidden studs.

get some 1" U channel, Aluminum, paint the color of the sheet metal,
bolt the letters to the channels, 2 horizontal raceways, and self-tapping screws (again same color as the R Panel) through the channels into the ribs (high points) on the R panel, try to use the existing holes where the lap screws are to minimize the number of holes

what type of paint was used? is it FULLY outgassed?

This is how we always do it.

 

[Doug Allan]

thanks for all the replies, and suggestions.

I did go back to the client and get approval on drilling for 2 studs per letter.. and got the job done!

I was happy I did that, because i feel that I would have had a much harder time with the install without that.
Anyway, it looks good, & I'm sleeping well on the windy nights

 

[Mike Paul]

Definitely stud mount.
Like you said it was just painted recently, who knows if they prepped it properly.
Paint could peel right off with the pad mounts with silicone or VHB Tape.

 

[tedshock]

If letters do fall off, they don't have too far to fall, & Gemini will warranty even if gluing pads only,

I'm confused...Gemini will warranty the letters if they break from a failed installation?

The times I dealt with Gemini in the past they always said if it broke "on it's own" they would repair/replace it. But they also told me (including once at a trade show in A/C) that if it breaks from user error (like if someone manhandles an interior letter and breaks it, or an exterior letter falls off the building wall) they would not warranty that.

Their own website says "Please note that this guarantee applies to defective material only, as described in our warranty statement.". Just curious if things have now changed?

 

[tedshock]

I think the devil is in the details, as in, "I don't have any details, the customer called and said his letter fell off the wall and he hucked it in the dumpster last week". Gemini has made good in the past for us several times, but haven't had a claim in quite a while...

That's the thing -- years ago it seemed like they'd replace anything just to keep the "lifetime warranty" thing alive and retain customers. I was curious to see if things changed (since I had recent conversations within the last 2-3 years where it seemed like what I initially said above). I decided to ask them directly to get a solid answer one way or the other. Sure enough, the warranty only covers defective material, not improper installation. They also said they would ask for photos & most likely require having the letters sent back to make the determination whether or not they would warranty them, so faulty installations and claiming the client hucked it in the dumpster doesn't seem like it would work (anymore)

 

[Medina Signs]

anytimevyour sentence starts with "and if it falls" you are wrong
why ask for trouble

we had a hurricane in 1979 or 1980 & i remember the next door neighbor saying he couldn't believe his new shed was "missing". we found it on top of the other neighbor's brand new cadillac. a few screws won't hurt

sometimes the weather fools you

Yes but were the letters still attached??