Intellectual Property and Signs 101

[Fred Weiss]

Since we seem to have this continuing debate over file swapping, file requests, displaying of reproductions of copyrighted and/or trademarked materials etc., maybe it's time for members to vote on where they stand.

Where do you stand on intellectual property rights?

Your vote is completely anonymous.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

Ballot Box?

 

[jiarby]

If Illegal Aliens are "undocumented immigrants" then
Illegal File Sharing must be "undocument licensing"
and
Drug Dealers are "undocumented pharmacists"

 

[high impact]

I just signed a 6 page contract and paid $200 to use a picture of a painting of a horse for one layout. The original artist is due their payment for use of their image...it's called stealing if I didn't pay for it.

Ethics and morals are down the toilet in good ol' America these days.

 

[the falcon]

my az brother

thats just Funny!!

 

[Ken]

Anything considered open source or freeware should be allowed. When specific copyright or trademarks are claimed, then it should not be allowed
(openly) on S101. What member to member correspondance happens thru use of private messages or direct e-mails would have no liabilty to S101 as you have no control over that.
Ken

 

[mountainmang]

Anything considered open source or freeware should be allowed. When specific copyright or trademarks are claimed, then it should not be allowed
(openly) on S101. What member to member correspondance happens thru use of private messages or direct e-mails would have no liabilty to S101 as you have no control over that.
Ken

 

[Derf]

Anything considered open source or freeware should be allowed. When specific copyright or trademarks are claimed, then it should not be allowed (openly) on S101.

 

[high impact]

I have no issues whatsoever with the swapping or helping of each other with freeware or open source files.

 

[3dsignco]

I think its fine as long as its a legit trade, No copyrighted material or someones clipart or fonts that aren't available somewhere else on the free sites..
I gladly gave the signmaker who was looking for the highway patrol wheel and wings a copy of the one re-drew years ago.

As for someone posting something they did. Thats their choice if they want to open up the can of worms on themselves.
I don't think sings101 should become the Sign Gestapo.

 

[weaselboogie]

I've always thought that members did a great job of policing themselves.

 

[vid]

I've always thought that members did a great job of policing themselves.

I think the sign professionals on this board exhibit a level of expertise and experience that leaves little doubt on their stand on intellectual property rights. The majority are qualified to set their own gray area level of tolerance for real and/or perceived infringements and offer advice accordingly. If you are considering change, I’ve not seen the posts that would prompt me to call for that.

Those that are a touch more fresh to the sign and graphics industries --- as it appears by some of the posts I’ve read of late --- well, they probably still need some encouragement to follow a more divine path in their business practices.

Consequently, I think this forum is a great venue to improve one’s education in these areas. If, for example, it takes a public display of burning a couple of n00bs at the stake and feeding their charred remains to crazed weasels in an effort to teach others of the pratfalls of copyright infringement, I’ll bring the marshmallows. Let the infringers post so that they may learn.

As for file swapping on forums, I don’t think it promotes intelligent discussion or a learning environment. It tends to benefit one member excluding the majority. As Signs 101 has evolved, I appreciate how members offer links to resources or suggestions on how to legitimately acquire sources --- it follows the ideal of “give a man a fish, feed him for a day – teach a man to fish…(you know the rest….).


Heck Fred, I'm a fan of how the forum is currently moderated. I think you’ve done a fine job of loosely wrangling a diverse range of personalities to create such a dynamic forum.

 

[MITCHATEXOTIC]

Actions and Beliefs

I use a bootleg copy of fast rip every day and I acquired it through a hack site that gives it away,,,,Now the next part to this admit ion of guilt is that my licensed*(799.00) dongled and documented version just doesn,t work.It suffers from continuous file conflict errors an run time errors.noguilt there.
But I do pay for a subscription to clipart dot com where I believe that all there art is re ware or public domain.Am I just paying for the conviniece of having it all in one place,, can I share these files....BTW I live in the land of Disney where the sued a guy whos pockets weren't as deep as thiers for open a shop called Mikeys mouse emporium

 

[Fred Weiss]

I think the sign professionals on this board exhibit a level of expertise and experience that leaves little doubt on their stand on intellectual property rights. The majority are qualified to set their own gray area level of tolerance for real and/or perceived infringements and offer advice accordingly. If you are considering change, I’ve not seen the posts that would prompt me to call for that.

Those that are a touch more fresh to the sign and graphics industries --- as it appears by some of the posts I’ve read of late --- well, they probably still need some encouragement to follow a more divine path in their business practices.

Consequently, I think this forum is a great venue to improve one’s education in these areas. If, for example, it takes a public display of burning a couple of n00bs at the stake and feeding their charred remains to crazed weasels in an effort to teach others of the pratfalls of copyright infringement, I’ll bring the marshmallows. Let the infringers post so that they may learn.

As for file swapping on forums, I don’t think it promotes intelligent discussion or a learning environment. It tends to benefit one member excluding the majority. As Signs 101 has evolved, I appreciate how members offer links to resources or suggestions on how to legitimately acquire sources --- it follows the ideal of “give a man a fish, feed him for a day – teach a man to fish…(you know the rest….).


Heck Fred, I'm a fan of how the forum is currently moderated. I think you’ve done a fine job of loosely wrangling a diverse range of personalities to create such a dynamic forum.

Rest easy Vid ... there's no contemplation of changing intellectual property policy. I do appreciate your comments though.

 

[bob]

The current concept of intellectual property, whatever that might mean to you, is a clumsy unworkable scheme left over from an era when the means of production and reproduction was the sole province of the creators of the work. The system evolved not because it was a Good Thing, but because you could get away with it. Clinging to this anachronism seems to transform people into either unctuous assholes or heinous criminals. Each as seen by the other.

I have no idea what other sort of system might be implemented, only that this one is idiotic. I fail to see the modern concept of intellectual property as anything but grasping at control over that which you really can have no control. You are bound to fail.

How about simply when you produce something, you get paid for it. Finis, done, that is that. What becomes of it should be no concern of yours, you got paid for doing it. It's up to you to be properly compensated without some moronic system as currently in place that makes such a feeble attempt at controlling the uncontrollable.

 

[Fred Weiss]

I use a bootleg copy of fast rip every day and I acquired it through a hack site that gives it away,,,,Now the next part to this admit ion of guilt is that my licensed*(799.00) dongled and documented version just doesn,t work.It suffers from continuous file conflict errors an run time errors.noguilt there.
But I do pay for a subscription to clipart dot com where I believe that all there art is re ware or public domain.Am I just paying for the conviniece of having it all in one place,, can I share these files....BTW I live in the land of Disney where the sued a guy whos pockets weren't as deep as thiers for open a shop called Mikeys mouse emporium

I would likely do the same thing if my legal copy did not work and I had exhausted getting a legal fix.

The "art" at Clipart.com is decidedly not public domain. As someone who follows such things and who has maintained a subscription there since it was ArtToday.com and cost $16.95 a year and who had dealings with some of the same original sources like Dover Clipart, I can attest to the fact that it is not. The core of it is the entire Dover Clipart library the rights to which Peter Gariepy acquired in a trade with Dover in return for converting it all to digital. Much of the rest came through a buyout by IMSI after they bought out most of the Los Angeles art mills who typically were each producing about 20,000 new vector images a month. IMSI in turn sold out to Jupiter Media who has bought everyone in sight in the last five years so that they now rival or dwarf major players like Getty and Corbis. they didn't do that kind of a deal because the archives are in the public domain.

Your point about Mikeys Mouse Emporium reinforces one of the main points I have been trying to make today.

 

[Fred Weiss]

The current concept of intellectual property, whatever that might mean to you, is a clumsy unworkable scheme left over from an era when the means of production and reproduction was the sole province of the creators of the work. The system evolved not because it was a Good Thing, but because you could get away with it. Clinging to this anachronism seems to transform people into either unctuous assholes or heinous criminals. Each as seen by the other.

I have no idea what other sort of system might be implemented, only that this one is idiotic. I fail to see the modern concept of intellectual property as anything but grasping at control over that which you really can have no control. You are bound to fail.

How about simply when you produce something, you get paid for it. Finis, done, that is that. What becomes of it should be no concern of yours, you got paid for doing it. It's up to you to be properly compensated without some moronic system as currently in place that makes such a feeble attempt at controlling the uncontrollable.

The entire concept of intellectual property protection is to insure that those who do create and add to our existence, through whatever research and development effort and expense, have ample time to recover their investment and reap a profit.

It takes roughly 2000 individual sales to gross back the cost of a new font, designed from scratch and brought to market. It takes anywhere from 500 to 2000 individual sales to gross back the development costs of the average piece of digital art or clipart.

Just because the concept has been around a while does not mean it should be abandoned when there is nothing that serves the purpose as well to replace it.

 

[MITCHATEXOTIC]

Fred your the bomb

I am once again amazed by not just the knowledge found , shared and gained on these boards, but you personally Mr.Wiess.I have for two years now aquired my license for clipart.com by purchasing a 9.99 piece of software by the name of 1 million clip art images from office max.

 

[bob]

The entire concept of intellectual property protection is to insure that those who do create and add to our existence, through whatever research and development effort and expense, have ample time to recover their investment and reap a profit.

You keep believing that. The notion is to keep control and wring every possible cent out of something for as long as possible.

Altruistic nonsense notwithstanding, regardless of motive, humanitarian or venal, the point is that the model functions only when the means of reproduction and distribution remain exclusively under the control of the producer. If that is not the case, the model doesn't work, the model cannot work. It's unfortunate that the industries involved spend their time and resources attempting to turn back the clock and spouting pious bullshit rather than creating a model that fits the reality of today.

 

[Ken]

Go YouTube!!!
Ken