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Intellectual property infringement or public domain?
- Thread starter HDvinyl
- Start date
studio 440
New Member
looks nice except all the lettering is reversed . And if someone steps in the wet paint and slips and falls is the artist or the city liable ? Block printing was replaced by the more efficient screen printing process and now DTG. But it does seem to be a design owned by the local city .
bob
It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Pretty much any thing design-wise that's owned but a government apparatus is in the public domain.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
It's hard to tell. It used to be in the 90s and mid aughts, "we" would be able to do city and DoD designs without much hassle. After 9/11 DoD designs was actually a hot thing. Doing DoD stuff now isn't public domain. So it's hard to tell what is or isn't when you start getting nitty gritty, local/state/federal government.
I've heard both sides of the argument, I can understand both, just still have to be careful. I know plenty of shops that used to do Marine logos that don't now. Even a big stock embroidery seller used to sell the true logos, now they only do generic designs. That are a very pale shadow of the full logos. Now that is DoD stuff, so local city may not be as such.
I've heard both sides of the argument, I can understand both, just still have to be careful. I know plenty of shops that used to do Marine logos that don't now. Even a big stock embroidery seller used to sell the true logos, now they only do generic designs. That are a very pale shadow of the full logos. Now that is DoD stuff, so local city may not be as such.
signbrad
New Member
An image that is in the public domain is free for anyone to copy or use. It doesn't matter who the original artist was. If a shirt maker uses the image to make money, they are free to do so. Of course, anyone else may use the same image on shirts and sell them. The first printer cannot print shirts with the design and then claim copyright protection for an image that is in the public domain.
........
HDvinyl,
Is there a reason why you suspect this manhole cover design is in the public domain?
When I took some intellectual property classes at the junior college here, the professor said it's good to assume that any image or design is not in the public domain; that any image is protected unless there is proof or cause to believe otherwise
IS IT PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT?
Assuming that a particular manhole design qualifies for copyright protection, the protection lasts for the lifetime of the artist, plus 70 years. Or the artist can transfer or assign all or some of the rights (copyright protection in the US is actually a bundle of five rights) to someone else, such as a client. Or, he or she can transfer the image to the public domain.
It is true that graphic design and layouts do not always qualify for copyright protection, at least according to the US Copyright Office. The US Copyright Office has had a tendency in the past to view graphic layouts, like sign layouts, in the same way that it has viewed the design of things like printed forms—that they do not qualify for copyright protection because they are "functional" rather than "original works of authorship," to use the government's terminology—unless the Copyright Office has changed its stand on this. So if you design a sign or a manhole cover and later someone copies your layout for printing shirts, it may be difficult to prosecute and win a case for infringement. You would first need to register the design with the Copyright Office. This a prerequisite for a lawsuit. If it qualifies, then the lawsuit must be filed in federal court and it's not cheap. This highlights the importance of getting paid for your design work before it leaves your possession.
For a discussion of the US Copyright Office's reluctance to give registrations for graphic design layouts, and a way for graphic designers to work around this, see this article written by Linda Joy Kattwinkel, a graphic artist-turned-intellectual-property-lawyer:
Registering Your Copyright in Graphic Design: Fighting Back if the Copyright Office Says No | Graphic Artists Guild
IS IT PROTECTED BY TRADEMARK?
What about a manhole cover that may not be protected by copyright but has as part of its design a protected trademark? Kansas City, Missouri, has had an image of a stylized heart-shaped fountain for a number of years that is used on vehicles and in other applications. It is trademark registration No.1872925. I can't remember for sure if it is used on manhole covers, but I think it is. Would it be okay to print shirts with this manhole cover design?
You might think the answer is obvious. But there are many gray areas in trademark protection. Not everything is clearcut, black and white. You may even find that different trademark lawyers will give somewhat different opinions. Some may even say, "You're probably okay, but I can't guarantee it." A trademark owner, of course, may claim that a particular use is an infringement, but that does not necessarily mean that it is. It may be that the only way to know for sure is through litigation. Would the city of Kansas City sue someone for printing and selling shirts with the town's manhole cover design? Would they spend money for that? Or would they just send a cease-and-desist letter? Would they even do anything or would they just ignore it? Litigation is expensive, even if the attorney is in-house. The city may feel it has more important legal matters to attend to. Or the city may feel there's a chance it would lose. Or that, even if it won, there might be negative publicity.
It's good to remember that trademark law is not so much designed to keep others from copying a trademark. Rather, it is to prevent confusion among consumers. The purpose of a trademark is to clearly identify the source of goods or services. It is to prevent unfair competition. If a company has worked hard to build up a good reputation for a product or service represented by a trademark, a competitor does not have the right to profit from that trademark's good reputation.
Consequently, there are unauthorized uses of a trademark that may not really constitute infringement.
..........................
This isn't the first time the question of copying manhole cover design has been asked. Here's a link and note the comments by all three attorneys that replied:
Is it a violation of copyright or trademark to - Q&A - Avvo
If a screen printer were going to copy manhole cover designs for printing T-shirts, it might be wise to get an opinion from an intellectual property attorney, especially before putting out a bunch of money on the project.
Brad in Kansas City
........
HDvinyl,
Is there a reason why you suspect this manhole cover design is in the public domain?
When I took some intellectual property classes at the junior college here, the professor said it's good to assume that any image or design is not in the public domain; that any image is protected unless there is proof or cause to believe otherwise
IS IT PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT?
Assuming that a particular manhole design qualifies for copyright protection, the protection lasts for the lifetime of the artist, plus 70 years. Or the artist can transfer or assign all or some of the rights (copyright protection in the US is actually a bundle of five rights) to someone else, such as a client. Or, he or she can transfer the image to the public domain.
It is true that graphic design and layouts do not always qualify for copyright protection, at least according to the US Copyright Office. The US Copyright Office has had a tendency in the past to view graphic layouts, like sign layouts, in the same way that it has viewed the design of things like printed forms—that they do not qualify for copyright protection because they are "functional" rather than "original works of authorship," to use the government's terminology—unless the Copyright Office has changed its stand on this. So if you design a sign or a manhole cover and later someone copies your layout for printing shirts, it may be difficult to prosecute and win a case for infringement. You would first need to register the design with the Copyright Office. This a prerequisite for a lawsuit. If it qualifies, then the lawsuit must be filed in federal court and it's not cheap. This highlights the importance of getting paid for your design work before it leaves your possession.
For a discussion of the US Copyright Office's reluctance to give registrations for graphic design layouts, and a way for graphic designers to work around this, see this article written by Linda Joy Kattwinkel, a graphic artist-turned-intellectual-property-lawyer:
Registering Your Copyright in Graphic Design: Fighting Back if the Copyright Office Says No | Graphic Artists Guild
IS IT PROTECTED BY TRADEMARK?
What about a manhole cover that may not be protected by copyright but has as part of its design a protected trademark? Kansas City, Missouri, has had an image of a stylized heart-shaped fountain for a number of years that is used on vehicles and in other applications. It is trademark registration No.1872925. I can't remember for sure if it is used on manhole covers, but I think it is. Would it be okay to print shirts with this manhole cover design?
You might think the answer is obvious. But there are many gray areas in trademark protection. Not everything is clearcut, black and white. You may even find that different trademark lawyers will give somewhat different opinions. Some may even say, "You're probably okay, but I can't guarantee it." A trademark owner, of course, may claim that a particular use is an infringement, but that does not necessarily mean that it is. It may be that the only way to know for sure is through litigation. Would the city of Kansas City sue someone for printing and selling shirts with the town's manhole cover design? Would they spend money for that? Or would they just send a cease-and-desist letter? Would they even do anything or would they just ignore it? Litigation is expensive, even if the attorney is in-house. The city may feel it has more important legal matters to attend to. Or the city may feel there's a chance it would lose. Or that, even if it won, there might be negative publicity.
It's good to remember that trademark law is not so much designed to keep others from copying a trademark. Rather, it is to prevent confusion among consumers. The purpose of a trademark is to clearly identify the source of goods or services. It is to prevent unfair competition. If a company has worked hard to build up a good reputation for a product or service represented by a trademark, a competitor does not have the right to profit from that trademark's good reputation.
Consequently, there are unauthorized uses of a trademark that may not really constitute infringement.
..........................
This isn't the first time the question of copying manhole cover design has been asked. Here's a link and note the comments by all three attorneys that replied:
Is it a violation of copyright or trademark to - Q&A - Avvo
If a screen printer were going to copy manhole cover designs for printing T-shirts, it might be wise to get an opinion from an intellectual property attorney, especially before putting out a bunch of money on the project.
Brad in Kansas City
signbrad
New Member
Bob,
You bring up a good point. It is true that design work created by a federal employee in the US is automatically in the public domain as long as the work is done as part of the person's job. However, this does not apply at the state or local level.
Here's a reference from Richard Stim, an intellectual property attorney and author:
Welcome to the Public Domain
Brad
You bring up a good point. It is true that design work created by a federal employee in the US is automatically in the public domain as long as the work is done as part of the person's job. However, this does not apply at the state or local level.
Here's a reference from Richard Stim, an intellectual property attorney and author:
Welcome to the Public Domain
Brad
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Who cares if he can duplicate a manhole cover or not ?? I'd like to know if he has a license for operating s business on the street like that ?? Also, how is he getting that ink to dry without a drier ?? Is he really using textile inks ?? Bets on how many washings that shirt will last. Even those plastic inks need 2 to 5 days to fully cure. Does he charge sales tax ??
signbrad
New Member
Some manhole covers may have more coolness than others.
This one is in London. I think it's near Westminster Abbey.
Thomas Crapper is often erroneously credited with inventing the flush toilet. He didn't invent it but he came up with a number of innovations for it. And he was for a time the Royal Sanitarian. Hence, his name is the most well known in this field of engineering. His biography, which I read in high school, is interesting and contains photographs of some stunningly beautiful toilet designs.
His name may have had trademark protection at one time, but it had long since suffered genericide and is now firmly fixed in the public domain.
This one is in London. I think it's near Westminster Abbey.
Thomas Crapper is often erroneously credited with inventing the flush toilet. He didn't invent it but he came up with a number of innovations for it. And he was for a time the Royal Sanitarian. Hence, his name is the most well known in this field of engineering. His biography, which I read in high school, is interesting and contains photographs of some stunningly beautiful toilet designs.
His name may have had trademark protection at one time, but it had long since suffered genericide and is now firmly fixed in the public domain.
