Irritating electrical sign....any thoughts

[visual800]

Customer called us to "refreash" their electrical sign. We did 2 news faces and replaced the 3 bulbs in it (F84). couple days last they called back and said the sign was out. I went by at night and the bulb on bottom was dim and the other 2 were out. Replaced the ballast yesterday and looked at it last night, still the same. WTH!!!! no sockets are burned, wiring looks great

why would it go from brightly lit to this? Have you guys ever seen sockets defective that were not burned all up? I never have and thats the only thing I can think it is. There is also another sign under this one that burns fine and its running off same circuit so that also is puzzling

 

[Marlene]

have you tried new blubs? they can be bad even if new. which way do the bulbs go? side to side or up and down? the up and down type can channel moisture down into the socket and it migh not be burned but it could be corroded. wires all good? none just barely connected or have places that are worn thru?


before you serviced the sign and put in new blubs how did it light or not light? were the same blubs out?

 

[visual800]

bulbs were all burned out and were black on ends when I replaced them, bulbs run side to side and sockets did not appear to be corroded, as I said that thing lit up like all get out for a week

 

[signage]

Are you sure it is wired correctly for the ballasts? I have repaired signs that others have replace the ballasts with a different one which caused the wiring to incorrect. Do not assume that the ballast you are replacing is the one the sign was built with. Yes I have seen sockets bad without being burned! I have learned to check all signs I work on with a meter.

 

[visual800]

ballast was a complete macth for replacement and WHY did it light up for a week and them start acting a fool? this is what baffles me.

 

[signage]

I have replaced ballasts with the same model of what was in the sign. But after having problems down the road (similar to what you are experiencing) found out that the ballasts must have been replace before by someone that just installed that ballast. No all ballasts wire the same for the same footage and configuration of lamps!

 

[ThinkRight]

It could be bad / corroded wiring , connectors or sockets.
Loose / oxidized connections cause a voltage drop and increase amps and heat.
Put it back together and check amp draw.
Oxidized wiring and sockets may look ok but a continuity check can tell you if there is too much resistance.
Sight unseen is hard to tell ,just go back to the basics.

 

[FS-Keith]

sounds like a dead lamp

 

[visual800]

Hotdamn! The sign from hell. Its bound to happen and we have all seen them. The ones that new bulbs and ballast just aint gonna be enough.

As of now it has a new ballast, 3 MORE new lamps (just to be sure) and all sockets were replaced, it was a rainy weekend here and I forced to come down from sign before anything got tested. But that evening drove by and the damn thing is still out. Its jobs like this that makes you wanna scream

thanks for all the replies. im getting another sign guy out there today thats been doing this for 35 years and see what he says, this should be interesting

 

[FS-Keith]

why couldnt you test the sign before you left the second time? have you tested the primary voltage and the secondary even after replacing the second ballast? what about the voltage at the sockets? do you have a tube tester to make sure you still dont have a bad lamp in there? its not uncommon I usually have at least 1 dead lamp to a case. You shouldnt be letting this get the best of you, there are only so many things to go wrong in a single ballast 3 lamp setup. Keep us updated

 

[Marlene]

when you find out what it is pleasepost if as it will be interesting and helpful to know what it was.

 

[Westcoast Sign Guy]

If you have already replaced the lamps and ballast and the bulbs are going first it sounds like you have a primary issue. Is this sign on a dedicated circuit? If not then you nee to find out what's sharing the circuit and what the circuit is when it's fully loaded. Anything short of what's required such as low voltage to the sign in a shared circuit and you're gonna have big issues of constantly changing out the lamps and ballasts

 

[signage]

Well did this ever get straightened out?
If so what was the issue?

 

[Steve G.]

Same scenario has happened to me at least three times.
It was faulty New
lamps each time.

 

[Billct2]

I've had this problem and it was a bad feed

 

[visual800]

Someone make me a "dumbass of the week" trophy. It amazes me after all the years in signage i can still be an idiot. The ballast i replaced was NOT the same brand that was in it and I so proudly just wasnt thinking and wired it just like the one in it. Really? I know better than that and I was not thinking.

in doing so i burnt up three more damn bulbs, lol. There are times when I wake up with clueless on my forehead.

 

[FS-Keith]

Brand has nothing to do with anything. Did you size the ballast wrong or wire something wrong?

 

[bikecomedy]

@visual800 I wanted to thank you for posting this thread. It made me research troubleshooting. Since I do so many various projects in this business and have to remind myself about little details and procedures I was glad to find this troubleshooting guide. Hesitated to share it because I am so new to the forum. Here it is now. Found it because of you and I am sure it will save me time in the future. Thank you. http://code-elec.com/content/00/01/53/48/38/userimages/fluorescent ballast troubleshooting guide.pdf

 

[visual800]

Brand has nothing to do with anything. Did you size the ballast wrong or wire something wrong?

keith, brands are NOT all the same, they do not wire up the same as far as colors of wires. So therefore I hooked up 2 wires wrong when in fact they should have been snipped and capped. As I said I have NEVER paid attention to what was inside and always referred to schematics on posted on ballast but for some reason just wasnt thinking on this day.

 

[visual800]

@visual800 I wanted to thank you for posting this thread. It made me research troubleshooting. Since I do so many various projects in this business and have to remind myself about little details and procedures I was glad to find this troubleshooting guide. Hesitated to share it because I am so new to the forum. Here it is now. Found it because of you and I am sure it will save me time in the future. Thank you. http://code-elec.com/content/00/01/53/48/38/userimages/fluorescent ballast troubleshooting guide.pdf

thanks for the article!