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ISSUES! Briteline Window perf and Clear-focus Clearlam over-lam - NEED SUGGESTIONS!

Discussion in 'Materials' started by ShoNuff, May 31, 2012.

  1. ShoNuff

    ShoNuff The Doer of Things

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    We are currently using Briteline 50/50 and 65/35 perforated window films from Grimco and Clear-focus Clearlam over-laminate for all perf solutions.

    In both instances there has been problems post install. The problems seem consistent with eachother as the 65/35 went on our store front door - and the 50/50 went on our first rear window perf install on our fleet vehicle - sort of test runs before our customer install we have scheduled. The graphic's seem to have many creases and bubbles that keep surfacing as time passes.

    The store front door was an easier install, so the creasing isn't near of a problem as it is on the vehicle; but the bubbling has been worse. In some spots we used a needle to poke the air holes and squeegee them flat, only for them to either resurface or look as you would expect; like popped and flattened bubbles.

    On the rear window, we noticed a multitude of issues during and post installation. Aside from the graphic not having enough over hang or arc to keep a horizontal line strait on a curved rear window, the laminate almost seemed to crease and fold almost instantly. Bubbles were everywhere and we were happy this wasn't for a paying customer.

    Upon removal of the 50/50 window graphic this morning, we started getting just the lam peeling off in strips. The graphic underneath looked great, aside from the minor design issues not taken into account before print. We gather that this must be an issue with the lam... Or the combination of the two efficient quality materials verses using premium quality media and lam. I also think that because there wasn't enough overhang on the laminated graphic, the install was doomed from the jumped, that may also cause the wrinkling, creasing, and bubbling from not having enough room for relief cuts to give relief to the strait boxed graphic.

    We have had many inquiries for rear window pef graphics and a laminated graphic on the table due to be installed in the morning for a paying customer. We've read where many people say DONT LAMINATE the window perf. But in Central Illinois, where there are many fields, gravel, and dirt roads in the outer lying rural areas - dirt accumulation will be a major issue for our customers. Is this where a spray or roll on laminate would benefit after floating an unlaminated window perf graphic to desired surface?

    ANY HELP on ANY OF THESE ISSUES will be greatly appreciated.


    Thanks!

    Les
    (Design / Production)
     
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  2. Molenbeek

    Molenbeek Member

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    The Clear lam is a polyester laminate which won't work with any curves whatsoever. If you are doing it on a back window- it has a slight curve to it so you need to use a PVC based laminate. Clear Focus makes one called CurvaLam which is what you should use for this application.
     
  3. ShoNuff

    ShoNuff The Doer of Things

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    Thanks. CurvaLam... CURVA-lam.. ever had that DUH moment? I just did. Can you answer this? Is it more cost effective to use intermediate/efficiency standard media's like Briteline and Clear****us or does one end up getting better results/profit base in the long run by skipping over the low end brands and just going 3M route?

    Pro's / Con's of either? Or in the end, as long as you have the proper material for the proper surface, does it not matter much except for in upfront costs?
     
  4. ShoNuff

    ShoNuff The Doer of Things

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    oops.. typo on Clearfocus.. my apologies
     
  5. JWesthead

    JWesthead Member

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    Jun 24, 2009
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    Yeah Curvalam...dont worry we learned the hard way also.

    I personally think the 3M film prints nicer side by side but when you are talking about only a one year warranty on a vehicle ClearFocus or other is the way to go for the price.
     
  6. Molenbeek

    Molenbeek Member

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    Both the ClearFocus and 3M are great products and i would say they are pretty equal. Clear Focus just focuses in on the window perf and has more options. the key is using the right product for the right application. If you use the right Window Perf with the right laminate- it will work great!
     
  7. ShoNuff

    ShoNuff The Doer of Things

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    So, as far as options wise on window perf, I would probably benefit more from going with the ClearFocus ClassicVue 50/50 film and using ClearFocus CurvaLam for vehicles - and sticking with that pattern, using Clear Focus ImageVue 65/35 or ReflectVue 70/30 for office/storefront installations also while using CurvaLam?

    It says that CurvaLam is a cast laminate. Does the rule of thumb - cast to cast / cal to cal apply here? I dont see a cast option for the actual perf media.

    Who is the best distributor to contact for these products. Getting very displeased with *RIMCO.
     
  8. ShoNuff

    ShoNuff The Doer of Things

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    really, what is the RIGHT Window Perf with the RIGHT laminate? What do YOU's guys use for those? Im still learning the hard way. haha
     
  9. Wiggum PI

    Wiggum PI Member

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    Clear Focus Autovue and Curvalam for vehicles and Promovue(higher white point) with Clearlam(or Curvalam if you dont wanna double up on lams) for shop windows.

    Chris.
     
  10. Freese

    Freese Member

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    Amen.

    Curious on TS issue with Grimco? I had this some conversation some time ago with a Grimco rep and he recommended everything that seemed to work out better.
     
  11. ShoNuff

    ShoNuff The Doer of Things

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    Our experience has been the exact opposite. But in their defense, they're just recently got ground in our area and the learning curve on their part has offset our production. Its an either, or; with them at this point. Convenient because they're the only local distributor we have.. Frustrating because often get the wrong advice on materials - just pushing clearance and sale items for benchmarks, I guess. That's neither here nor there. Was just curious on who others use to get these products.

    plus I cant seem to find Autovue or Promovue in any of the catalogs.

    THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE REPLIES. Hopefully we can get this issue hammered out, QUICKLY!
     
  12. ShoNuff

    ShoNuff The Doer of Things

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    and btw.. the briteline perf matched with clearlam WAS their suggestion for vehicle perf install. But like I said, the local employees were recently employees of another company that was bought out by the dist. Even though the products they sold were similar, the folks on site dont really have solid answers...

    I had a guy suggest NOT LAMINATING perf, period.... Maybe in paradise where no dirt or dust fly and the sun is always behind clouds.. but not in Central IL jack.
     
  13. boxerbay

    boxerbay Active Member

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    Darkside of the Moon
    your using wrong products. also the delaminating could be because you did not let the prints sit overnight to outgas.

    for curved surface use 3M 8171 perf with oracal 290GF laminate.
    for the flat we use proveer 70/30 seevue perf and clearlam lam.

    always laminate vehicle perf. if not when it rains they cannot see out the back window.
     
  14. Molenbeek

    Molenbeek Member

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    Hi Les
    Make sure you look up Advantage Sign Supply. We have an office in Schaumburg, IL and Indianapolis, IN to serve you from. We carry the 3M, ClearFocus, Oracal and many other things.

    Thanks

    www.advantagesignsupply.com
     
  15. ShoNuff

    ShoNuff The Doer of Things

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Springfield, IL
    We run a HP25500L with latex inks which allow us to laminate without the outgassing wait time, but in these instances that was not the issue as the prints sat for over 24 hours. Where the delam problem probably came from was not letting the lam'd prints sit for the 12 hour adhesion bond time. After we laminated the vehicle print, we installed it about an hour later.

    The store front was allowed 48 hours before lam, 12 hours post lam and still had the wrinkling, tunneling and bubbling issues. Im assuming the clearlam being a polyester and the panel of glass on our door has slight beveled edges - kind of giving it a form of curvature. Even with proper overhang on the door, the curvature for the bevels probably afforded some stretch that is not doable with the polyester Clearlam.

    its all making sense now. Like I said previously, I am glad these were test runs for our shop rather than out the gate for paying customers.

    and I agree on always laminating window perf. Ive seen both vehicles and store fronts without lam in our area and the dirt buildup and fading are an immense problem. In a city surrounded by corn fields, wind tunnels, rural outer lying areas, and non stop construction; we get more than the fair share of dust and debris. I would rather decline the option for quality purpose than proceed and end up with bad word of mouth promotion.

    Thanks for the reply and material suggestions.
     
  16. ShoNuff

    ShoNuff The Doer of Things

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Springfield, IL
    We will be checking with your supply company today. Thank you for all your help on this matter. I really appreciate the insight and suggestions. From what Ive researched and gathered from the replies, I feel much more confident in our future perf solutions. I know from experience in tinting auto glass, this is just another piece that takes a few times to get the process right.

    Big Thanks!
     
  17. ShoNuff

    ShoNuff The Doer of Things

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Springfield, IL
    Autovue? I can't seem to find it anywhere on distributors websites or catalogs. Same with Promovue. Are these products limited to suppliers outside the states or am I missing something?
     
  18. Wiggum PI

    Wiggum PI Member

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    Melbourne Australia
    I'll have to wait until Monday here, and get back to you about the names over there and suppliers.
     
  19. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    Mar 6, 2009
    Bluegrass
    Looked this thread up because I had the same problem today installing windows.
    Only I was using both Clear Focus Perf AND Clear Focus Laminate.
    Seems the Laminate was coming off the print. Some of it I didn't even bother installing because I noticed it coming off before I even started to install it...while it still had the backing on it.
    Not pleased. Will be contacting my rep now.
    Print sat for 2 or 3 days before laminating.
     
  20. boxerbay

    boxerbay Active Member

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    Darkside of the Moon
    clear focus clear lam is absolute garbage. do not use ever for anything. it is pure garbage.

    use oracal 290GF as the lam. it is a bit more but it will save a boat load of headaches.
     
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