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ProWraps™
Guest
im being offered just over $1k to install full wraps on 48' semi trailers... let the fun begin!
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Just lost a bid by HALF!
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grafixemporium
New Member
Huh Tec? Is that $1k labor only?
Checkers
New Member
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Some, if not most, of the franchise shops (and many independents too) invested their life savings and taken on a lot of debt to establish their business. Now they're stuck a huge nut to crack every month. So, they'll do whatever it takes to make ends meet - even if it means working for free
With these troubled times upon us, you're going to see a lot more of this happening too. And, although some of these businesses will eventually fold, there will be many more lining up to take the place of the failed business. This should be no surprise though because it's been happening for as long as I've been in this business.
Checkers
Some, if not most, of the franchise shops (and many independents too) invested their life savings and taken on a lot of debt to establish their business. Now they're stuck a huge nut to crack every month. So, they'll do whatever it takes to make ends meet - even if it means working for free
With these troubled times upon us, you're going to see a lot more of this happening too. And, although some of these businesses will eventually fold, there will be many more lining up to take the place of the failed business. This should be no surprise though because it's been happening for as long as I've been in this business.
Checkers
Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
haha Luggnut i've been pulling my hair out in regards to that 'companies' pricing like crazy, they just wrapped a ford f250 for $650 FULL WRAP..designed, printed, installed...forget it, if i am going to work for free i'm going to play with my daughter at the park and go broke versus working at a loss.
Checkers said it right...desperate times/desperate measures. forget it i don't even want to compete for those prices.
Checkers said it right...desperate times/desperate measures. forget it i don't even want to compete for those prices.
Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
we've all done things cehaper than we should have..and we learn that we can't make stay in business doing so and we make changes..that is normal.
the only theory i have as to why anyone would do that is that...the overhead has to be killing them. huge shop, all the toys (cnc router, printer(s), etc) that they are not using to their potential...they should be investing in training, a good designer, before all of the tools to do work that they are not capable of doing well...just my opinion(s)...and of course they should invest in the time to setup a decent pricing structure.
just recently i have seen quotes from them for a full color 3X8 banner hemmed and grommeted $27.00 (my price quote on this project was $205)
1,000 business cards their quote $19.99 (my quote on this was $127.00)
now i know i am on the high end of the spectrum..i am known for high end work that is done correctly...i would rather sell service and design versus substrates by the square foot...just my opinion..but lately it has gotten out of control.
F250 club cab wrap their quote $650 (mine $3850)
4X8 nupoly (dibond) full color job site sign (installed with 4X4 posts) their price installed $125...(my quote $450 for the sign installation with posts (no concrete) $220)
one pair 15" X 24" vehicle magnets thier price for the pair $25 (my quote $140)
needless to say i lost them all....i don't even quote racecars..i have a good friend that enjoys that type of work and can relate with the clients.
i know i am on the higher end of the local pricing spectrum. but my philosophy is that i would rather sell design and service...i would rather invest the extra time to think the project through and provide the client with a solution to whatever issue they are addressing (be it a sales issue, wayfinding/directional, informational, etc) versus selling substrates by the pound.
in my opinion i do not want to simply sell the client the cheapest solution we can think of to make the sale and get them out the door...rather i want to work with people that see value in taking the time to design something that effectively communicates whatever it is that needs to be communicated and does so using the appropriate design and materials so that the solution they are purchasing actually does it's intended purpose. the material costs should be the least of our worries. not to be cheesy but it has always been my theory that if we approach projects in this manner any amount that my clients pay me should be an investment not an expense as the product we provide them (if we follow this line of reasoning)should generate a return for them in time.
the only theory i have as to why anyone would do that is that...the overhead has to be killing them. huge shop, all the toys (cnc router, printer(s), etc) that they are not using to their potential...they should be investing in training, a good designer, before all of the tools to do work that they are not capable of doing well...just my opinion(s)...and of course they should invest in the time to setup a decent pricing structure.
just recently i have seen quotes from them for a full color 3X8 banner hemmed and grommeted $27.00 (my price quote on this project was $205)
1,000 business cards their quote $19.99 (my quote on this was $127.00)
now i know i am on the high end of the spectrum..i am known for high end work that is done correctly...i would rather sell service and design versus substrates by the square foot...just my opinion..but lately it has gotten out of control.
F250 club cab wrap their quote $650 (mine $3850)
4X8 nupoly (dibond) full color job site sign (installed with 4X4 posts) their price installed $125...(my quote $450 for the sign installation with posts (no concrete) $220)
one pair 15" X 24" vehicle magnets thier price for the pair $25 (my quote $140)
needless to say i lost them all....i don't even quote racecars..i have a good friend that enjoys that type of work and can relate with the clients.
i know i am on the higher end of the local pricing spectrum. but my philosophy is that i would rather sell design and service...i would rather invest the extra time to think the project through and provide the client with a solution to whatever issue they are addressing (be it a sales issue, wayfinding/directional, informational, etc) versus selling substrates by the pound.
in my opinion i do not want to simply sell the client the cheapest solution we can think of to make the sale and get them out the door...rather i want to work with people that see value in taking the time to design something that effectively communicates whatever it is that needs to be communicated and does so using the appropriate design and materials so that the solution they are purchasing actually does it's intended purpose. the material costs should be the least of our worries. not to be cheesy but it has always been my theory that if we approach projects in this manner any amount that my clients pay me should be an investment not an expense as the product we provide them (if we follow this line of reasoning)should generate a return for them in time.
mike franklin
New Member
Yeah,
I am getting a lot of that also. The crazy thing is that they have more overhead with having to pay the franchise fees for every job. The problem is the customers see only the bottom line and not the quality.
I am getting a lot of that also. The crazy thing is that they have more overhead with having to pay the franchise fees for every job. The problem is the customers see only the bottom line and not the quality.
redline graphics
New Member
Hey Tec!!!
1g for a trailer? we ca barely get 750 (but i did)for a 52' trailer and that includes washing, adhesion primer, etc....
so who's buying this round....
1g for a trailer? we ca barely get 750 (but i did)for a 52' trailer and that includes washing, adhesion primer, etc....
so who's buying this round....
johnnysigns
New Member
If the trailers were new and the rears were not full coverage reflective that's actually a decent days pay for two guys. I used to do heaps of this type of stuff and people freaked out about it then too.
OldPaint
New Member
i said it before and ill say it again.........THESE NON-TALENTED, NON-SIGN SKILLED, people who LEASE A PRINTER AND THINK THEY GONA MAKE BIG BUCKS...have only one POINT OF SALE FACTOR that they can use, AND THAT IS UNDERCUT OTHER ESTABLISHED SIGN SHOPS!!!!!!
and then they realize all but to late......THEY CANT MAKE MONEY at those prices............BUT THE DAMAGE IS DONE .............NOW THE BUYING PUBLIC just see HOW LOW THIS GUY WAS, and anyone who charges more is a RIP OFF!!!!!!!
this has been the crap that has happened since the plotter came into play.
WHAT WE AS ..........TIME INVESTED TRADESMEN have learned how to do AND MAKE GREAT FAST MONEY AT......now has become one of the LOWEST ESTEEMED PRODUCTS .........ON THE OPEN MARKET!!!!!
nobody tells the PLUMBER/AC-HEATING/CARPENTER/CEMENT FINISHER/LAWN MAINTENANCE/TREE SERVICE/SEPTIC TANK/CAR MECHANIC......
HEY........SO ANS SO DOWN THEW STREET CAN TO THAT SAME JOB FOR WAYYYYYY LESS!!!!!!!!!!
WHY....cause they as TRADESMEN...........will not "undercut the market value" of their trade!!!!!!!!
to bad the people in this business DONT SEE THIS!!!!
TOTAL SELFISHNESS & GREED, dictate the "job of the moment" as to HOW IT GETS PRICED!!!!!!!!
us old sign folk, who swung a brush, DID UNDERCUT THE ESTABLISHED SHOPS....BUT...........we didnt GIVE OUR WORK AWAY EITHER!!!!!!!!!! and as soon as i we had some CLIENT BASE.... we priced just like the other sign painters....CAUSE WE KNEW OUR PRODUCT WAS WELL WORTH....what we got paid.
no longer does that hold any value!!!!!! and the more WHO ARENT TALENTED, and sell for less.......jump in here .....where will it stop????
i hold my prices eor what i do, of course i sell CHEAP if you want CHEAP...18x24", 4x8 coro sign.....
but most of these are exactly what they pay for......CRAP!!!!
banners i do for $6-10 sq ft..........i aint spendin my money to give away a banner. most decent banners cost $.80-1.10 sq ft...3x8 cost is $15-26 .........and then i get my time and design pay added to that...
i need to eat......
and then they realize all but to late......THEY CANT MAKE MONEY at those prices............BUT THE DAMAGE IS DONE .............NOW THE BUYING PUBLIC just see HOW LOW THIS GUY WAS, and anyone who charges more is a RIP OFF!!!!!!!
this has been the crap that has happened since the plotter came into play.
WHAT WE AS ..........TIME INVESTED TRADESMEN have learned how to do AND MAKE GREAT FAST MONEY AT......now has become one of the LOWEST ESTEEMED PRODUCTS .........ON THE OPEN MARKET!!!!!
nobody tells the PLUMBER/AC-HEATING/CARPENTER/CEMENT FINISHER/LAWN MAINTENANCE/TREE SERVICE/SEPTIC TANK/CAR MECHANIC......
HEY........SO ANS SO DOWN THEW STREET CAN TO THAT SAME JOB FOR WAYYYYYY LESS!!!!!!!!!!
WHY....cause they as TRADESMEN...........will not "undercut the market value" of their trade!!!!!!!!
to bad the people in this business DONT SEE THIS!!!!
TOTAL SELFISHNESS & GREED, dictate the "job of the moment" as to HOW IT GETS PRICED!!!!!!!!
us old sign folk, who swung a brush, DID UNDERCUT THE ESTABLISHED SHOPS....BUT...........we didnt GIVE OUR WORK AWAY EITHER!!!!!!!!!! and as soon as i we had some CLIENT BASE.... we priced just like the other sign painters....CAUSE WE KNEW OUR PRODUCT WAS WELL WORTH....what we got paid.
no longer does that hold any value!!!!!! and the more WHO ARENT TALENTED, and sell for less.......jump in here .....where will it stop????
i hold my prices eor what i do, of course i sell CHEAP if you want CHEAP...18x24", 4x8 coro sign.....
but most of these are exactly what they pay for......CRAP!!!!
banners i do for $6-10 sq ft..........i aint spendin my money to give away a banner. most decent banners cost $.80-1.10 sq ft...3x8 cost is $15-26 .........and then i get my time and design pay added to that...
i need to eat......
Service Sign Co
New Member
Aire Serve 2 color reflective vans are $1,200.00 and Roto -rooter a little less but non reflective. Now that Roto-Rooter has gone for wraps, shops are to competitive to fool with
luggnut
New Member
yep our industry is perceived as all is done by the computer and any one could do it..... its not like that with HVAC and contractors. people don't see the value in a skilled experienced artist.... because anyone can do the everyday coroplast and banner stuff with a computer and plotter.
the other industries seem more regulated with bldg codes and inspections so just anyone can't start doing them and doing them wrong
the other industries seem more regulated with bldg codes and inspections so just anyone can't start doing them and doing them wrong
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ProWraps™
Guest
hate to say it. this is EVERY industry. this entire world is screwed. big time. nothing has value anymore except diamonds. i closed my retail store because of this. people were selling below cost. dunno how they did it or why. but in the end, the entire industy has all but been wiped off the map. sad.
Cadmn
New Member
ad more people every day giving their stuff away seems like every month on rc universe there is a new graphics company & they are pushing 3 color cut designs for $5 bucks each & one new one was pushing that they Were HIS designs but if you had been around long the designs have beenn out there for years. todays market is a give it away free market. An RC pilot will spend 3K for a plane but won't put 10bux in a graphic.
Just Me
New Member
probably one of the smartest things you ever typed!
Signalaugh
New Member
In this economy you are going to have to fight it out. You are going to have to get lean. Get rid of the payments, crappy employees and get as light as you can. Sell any equipment you can to fight it out. It is going to be long and tough. In the Navy we used to say "Secure for Sea".
tommythesignguy
New Member
Years ago, I would get frustrated when I didn't get a bid. No longer. I bid high and most of the time I get the job from sheer reputation. I have found that a good job, at a higher price makes up for the ones that you lose. Stick to your guns and don't work for free. The best thing that I have done is to establish a working relationship with the other shops in my area. If we all raise our prices 10-20%, we all work 10-20% less - or the customer must drive out of the area for the job. I send alot of the coroplast and banner jobs to local shops because I hate them - and they send me the electrical stuff that they can't do. We swap supplies and brag to each other about jobs, all the while, comparing prices to keep our local trade at it's peak. Recently, I lost a bid for hanging brackets and banners for the city on 50ct. tapered and fluted light poles. They were on a narrow street in a "bad" area where you had to provide traffic control and wear a pistol. I bid $55 per pole (with the bucket truck) and lost it to a local shop that did it for $35 each. They hung them with an extension ladder without traffic control. I feel responsible for my workers and my craftsmanship... some don't. That may be why I am more expensive.