Just sold a sign....Now how do I make it?

[neato]

A friend of mine lives in a very nice lake neighborhood and asked for a replacement for the sign they have marking their drive/road.

This is what I proposed to them and they love it. But now I'm not sure how to fabricate it. I'm mainly concerned about the sign panel itself.

How would you fabricate this? Keep in mind, this will be hand carved HDU. Would it be ok to use a solid piece of 1.5" thick HDU on a sign this size? Or should I laminate? What material would you use for the top pieces? What hangers? Etc.

I know these are newbie questions, this is the first hanging sign I've sold in my little hand-carved sign business. I want to make sure it lasts!

 

[GB2]

Phillip, you can use 1.5" or 2" HDU to construct this. The top pieces would also be HDU and glued in place with an appropriate HDU glue, Gorilla Glue or an epoxy. For the hangers I would use 5/16"x6" SS eye bolts threaded directly into the HDU and then fill any voids with epoxy. If you really wanted to do the ultimately secure job, then you would construct an internal steel frame, create two single sided panels and glue them together encapsulating the steel frame. The eye bolts would be welded or bolted internally to the frame. You can get by with using the typical 15# HDU but a heavier product, 18, 20, 30# would be better. Another good mid-level way to construct this would be to use the 1.5" double sided panel but place a single steel bar across the top of it, which you could bolt your eye bolts to and then glue up those top trim pieces to encapsulate the steel.

 

[Gino]

Don't think a solid piece of foam is the way to go. Far too lightweight, no matter where the location will be. Sandwiching two 1" pieces around an aluminum or steel frame would be much better. Also, make sure you have a chain or something holding it in place to a certain extent, so it doesn't flip itself around and hang itself.

My preference would be to make it out of 6/4" wood. Redwood, cedar or mahogany would be my choices. Its hard to handcarve in softer woods like the redwood and cedar, but you can always sandblast them or CNC them.

I'm not telling you not to do what you want, but being able to do something which might not be the correct choice for the application, just because you know how to do something........ is just as much a concern being a good businessperson as the end reaults.

Generally, we save what foam signs we do for substantially mounted signs..... as flush mount wall signs, between uprights and monument type signs.

 

[Billct2]

I like hanging signs to have some weight so they don't flap too much in a wind. I,too, like the idea of a heavy weld steel frame that incorporates the hangers (which can be two tabs with holes) and bond two single face panels back to back over the frame

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

How would you fabricate this? Keep in mind, this will be hand carved HDU. Would it be ok to use a solid piece of 1.5" thick HDU on a sign this size? Or should I laminate? What material would you use for the top pieces? What hangers? Etc.

I know these are newbie questions, this is the first hanging sign I've sold in my little hand-carved sign business. I want to make sure it lasts!

Phillip, I would instead of using a 1.5" sheet, I would use (2) panels of 1". I would build a square tube steel frame, and put in the center. I would try to get 1/2" tube, and then rout a channel a little deeper than 1/4" deep in the back of each. Bond them together with West Systems 2 part epoxy.

When you build the frame, weld a nut in the tube, and that will allow a screw eye to be inserted...

I wish I was closer, we could knock it out in an afternoon.

 

[JR's]

Hey Nido
it looks like there's a lot of different ways to skin, handle this project.

If you didn't want to get into the heavy internal frame.
You could go with threaded rod and eyebolt.

I would use two pieces of 1 inch high density urethane.
With the channel routed on both pieces have a channel for a piece of flat stock. At the bottom.

For the top of the sign You could use cedar, PVC, or even high density urethane.

And I would definitely attach it to the post so it does not swing over completely.

 

[JR's]

Something like this but I would go almost to the bottom of the sign and router out a pocket for a piece of flat stock.

 

[neato]

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys. I think I have a pretty solid idea now of how to handle this one.

 

[TimToad]

I really like your layout and the hanging bracket. Understated, elegant and should look awesome.

We try to work with aluminum for our internal framing whenever possible.

This is the pig in our shop that we're putting the finishing touches on right now. The frame on this is 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" aluminum square tube with multiple verticals spread across it. Instead of the frame just being glued between the front and back panels, we're sandwiching the panels with LEXEL which also are laminated to ACM bakcing panels around the powdercoated aluminum frame and through bolting them all the way around the perimeter and behind the pocket routed words before we glue those in.

 

[Johnny Best]

Just yesterday two sign people on here were complaining about architects designing something they have no idea how to fabricate it. Neato here has designed and sold a sign and does not know how to fabricate it.
How can you "design" things and not know how they are made.
Sorry if this bothers people that I think this way but I was taken aback when I first read the post.
My 2nd grade teacher told us "that no question is stupid if you don't know the answer" so I guess that applies here.
Good luck fabricating your hanging sign.

 

[GB2]

I can understand how you feel this way but Phillip is an excellent sign and logo designer that has been in the industry for awhile but as I understand it, he has recently taken up hand carving signs and is in the begining stages of this business, where everyone must start at some point. Isn't this how you grow, you take one step further than you've ever gone and if you stumble you stop and ask a question and then proceed. We find ourselves doing this constantly and I don't ever see an end to it.

 

[Johnny Best]

If he has been in the industry for awhile as you say and has been on the site for some time I am sure he would know the different ways of making this kind of sign. He must not have taken Shop in highschool. Many articles and conversations have been discussed on this subject. Yes, we all do not know everything, but how many times have people been criticized for not knowing how to design or build something such as a hobbyist or architect.
Just was surprised on his naiveness of the subject after he designed and sold it.
Maybe if people go to him to get designs, he should go to someone to build it for him.

 

[Gino]

I had the same initial thought, but knowing he is just getting started in this field, gave him the benefit of the doubt. The old adage of ya gotta start somewhere is alright, but not in this situation. Here, the OP has no clue if he needs 1.5", 2 1" pieces slapped together, an interior structural system, how to hang it or weight for the supporting post. My real concern is not how to put it together as any nitwit can find out how to do anything on the internet, but how does one go about pricing something like this before he/she knows any of the costs or procedure they are about to use ??

If the thing is designed, presented and accepted....... don't you hafta give a price...... or are these customers that trusting ?? Don't your customers ever ask questions like...... what's it made of or how long will it take ??

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

Just yesterday two sign people on here were complaining about architects designing something they have no idea how to fabricate it. Neato here has designed and sold a sign and does not know how to fabricate it.
How can you "design" things and not know how they are made.
Sorry if this bothers people that I think this way but I was taken aback when I first read the post.
My 2nd grade teacher told us "that no question is stupid if you don't know the answer" so I guess that applies here.
Good luck fabricating your hanging sign.

I, too, like Gino, was giving Phillip the benefit of doubt, as far as starting out fabricating signs.

Although my first thought was I hope he did charge enough for the fabrication and execution of the sign...

 

[Rick]

It is a very nice design... since every sign like this has a code, is it designed to the municipal code for this area? Are you installing? If so, does that require a permit and contractors license - well in your case, local registration? Overlook this and you are buying the sign...

When I design a sign for other shops, I do not put too much detail on fabrication because not every shop fabricates and installs the same. I am working on 3 signs right now where the install is so tricky, I had to get the fabricator and installer together to detail out what needed to be done prior to engineering. It's not always a slam dunk when it comes to designing details. Though it is different when you are the one building it, the lesson learned will be when it cost twice as much to fabricate and install as anticipated.

The few things I notice about the suggestions and current design is that to have an internal structure, you may need to make the panel thicker in order to clear the inset carve.
Frostline - I did a boo-boo, if the sign is in Illinois, and there is a frostline, it's 40"
Are you looking for a stock option on the frame? Do you weld or know a vendor who can make a custom frame with the eyebolt spread you need?

I included a .pdf of things I would have considered before pricing it out.

Without knowing all these tiny details, one of these items overlooked can blow the budget... I've done it myself... designers beware...

 

[Johnny Best]

Rick, use to put model airplanes together as a kid. Your drawings remind of those. Did not want to spend that much time so just roughed it.

Anyway, I am jumping on the bandwagon on fabricating this sign. Simple as possible. Flat stock on top, either aluminum or pt wood where eyebolts are attached to that instead of foam. Carriage bolts through top plate into HDU with oversized holes filled with 2 part epoxy. (Six10 thickened epoxy adhesive West System) One piece 2" thick, keeping it as lightweight as possible.
HDU. Pole and scroll bracket by others. Dug in as Rick suggested.
Neato should have gotten one of his design clients on here to fabricate it for him such as Kottwitz who seems to know how to make this by his advice. They could trade off work.

 

[neato]

Wow. I missed a lot. I guess I left out just enough information to allow for conclusions to be jumped to.

As Rick said, every client I have fabricates in their own way. I design layouts, not structures. So I'm not ashamed to admit that I don't have a ton of experience fabricating dimensional signs. Yes I have made signs in the past, but nothing of this calibur yet. I'm sure everyone here can relate, we didn't come out of our mothers womb knowing how to make a 2 sided hanging HDU sign.

I do have a lot of woodworking tools and am not completely ignorant on how things are made, I just wanted to know the best way make this structural since I have no confidence in HDU as a structural material.

This job is for a good friend out of state, price has not been discussed yet, and honestly probably isn't an issue in this case. I am only providing the sign and probably the bracket. I

I do appreciate all the feedback.

 

[Gino]

Sure, every fabricator will have their own way of putting something together, but if you initially make it in a manner which makes it super difficult to do, then your time is wasted and so is theirs, if you leave the final IMPORTANT part(s) up to them.

Having lotsa tools and toys does not make a craftsman. You need to know what you are doing before you do something of this nature.

Coming out of your mommy's womb with anything other than a huge crying spell is usually normal. How your formative years were spent and developed is what will make or turn you into something someday. Then again, you have these child prodigies or others called savants who actually do come out as a genius. There goes your theory on that one.​

I highly doubt anyone designing signs for others is gonna have a dangerous mission ahead of them. Just could be a cost factor if all things aren't taken into consideration.

 

[Johnny Best]

Signs101 provided that tit of information to sooth the crying newborn once again.

 

[neato]

You need to know what you are doing before you do something of this nature.

Wasn't that the whole point of starting this thread?