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L25500 :: non-stop substrate jams
- Thread starter GP
- Start date
HulkSmash
New Member
No because the ink needs to cure as they're printed. It's not the "drying" temp that causes issues -- it's the curing temp
GP
New Member
This morning it happened on our free HP Permanent adhesiveness gloss, but it has happened on 3951 as well.
It also happens on 13 ounce ultra flex banner.
I will monitor the environmental numbers more closely as things are definitely heating up in SC. But today, the humidity is 49% and room temp is 76 degrees. I would think that is fine.
But, thanks for the input.
It also happens on 13 ounce ultra flex banner.
I will monitor the environmental numbers more closely as things are definitely heating up in SC. But today, the humidity is 49% and room temp is 76 degrees. I would think that is fine.
But, thanks for the input.
HulkSmash
New Member
tomence
New Member
Do you think it's a wise choice to get the new l26500 over any other solvent printer, I really need to get one by the end of the next week
Jack Knight1979
New Member
I love my eco sol printer. I don't think they're going anywhere.
I do think all the sensitive media profiles and complications are the downfall of the latex machines from HP or as Merritt likes to call them. HP = Heap of Plastic.
I do think all the sensitive media profiles and complications are the downfall of the latex machines from HP or as Merritt likes to call them. HP = Heap of Plastic.
Not sure where this statement is coming from. What do you mean sensitive media profiles? Like anything, there's bound to be a learning curve, but simply writing off a technology that works. The printer works well.
I own 14 of the L25500 units and 3 of the L26500 units. We run plenty of adhesive vinyl and banner through them every day with no hesitation.
Not very complicated
HulkSmash
New Member
no offence, but you don't know what you're talking about.
BIG EASY DOES IT
New Member
Try increasing the vacumm to hold the media down better. Also if you print alot on materials smaller then 48" your platen can get alot of aerosol ink spray on it. This can cause the holes used for the vacumm to clog.
Jack Knight1979
New Member
No offense taken. It seems that most the people I've talked to are about this printer don't have it dialed in yet.
I've spoken with a few shops that own this printer have a hard time wrapping their head around dry temps, heat temps, etc. I've also seen a lot of positive posts about the machine as well.
Granted that a few of these people went from a 5500 to the l2 which is another animal entirely, so I can see why they would need a good amount of time getting their head around the printer.
I have not seen this machine run in person so I am talking out of school a bit and I admit it, but I'm just sharing what I've gathered from other owners of these printers. I'm glad you guys have had a good run with them.
Sorry if I offended anyone. Not my intention. I'll stick with eco-sol for now.
I've spoken with a few shops that own this printer have a hard time wrapping their head around dry temps, heat temps, etc. I've also seen a lot of positive posts about the machine as well.
Granted that a few of these people went from a 5500 to the l2 which is another animal entirely, so I can see why they would need a good amount of time getting their head around the printer.
I have not seen this machine run in person so I am talking out of school a bit and I admit it, but I'm just sharing what I've gathered from other owners of these printers. I'm glad you guys have had a good run with them.
Sorry if I offended anyone. Not my intention. I'll stick with eco-sol for now.
BigfishDM
Merchant Member
Remember there are 2 heaters in the printer, dryer and curer and they do very different things. Most of e time that wet print people see is because the water in the ink that needs to be dried out at the first heater has not dried completely and there for the curing heater can not fully do its job. So the key on a media where you have a problem with overheating (usually something like polypro is what people complain about but it prints perfectly and stays totally flat).
Usually in this "wet" situation people make the assumption they need to increase the curing but this is generally wrong. First you need to look at the "wet" print and establish if it's cured or not by trying to smudge the wet part with your finger. If its not cured the sole print will wipe off to the white of the media under, but generally what you will see when you do this test is only a small amount of ink coming off on our finger but most of it stays behind. Tis means that the print did actually cure, but that the water from the ink was not properly dried out by the first heater
In this case, keep the curing at the same setting if it is not heat affecting the media at this point and make sure the drying heater is set to the maximum 55. If it wasn't that may have been the problem. There is a cheat on the drying heater to get it above the 55 by increasing the "minimum drying power" to something like 1.1 or 1.2 (never go over 1.2 though because you can actually overheat that zone and get an error from the printer, under 1.2 will be fine).
When you increase the minimum power setting you are forcing the drying heater to run hotter and when you actually print if you look at the printer it will be running much hotter than 55 actually and this can often resolve the problem also The last thing that it's important to understand that curing a print in a L25500 is like baking a cake- if you want your cake quickly so you heat up the oven really hot and take the cake out early then the outside of the cake will be burnt and the inside uncooked. To point of that example is to help people understand that sometimes a media needs to be printed on a slower pass mode to give the heaters time to fully work but at a lower temperature in the case the media can't accept the heat very well.
I have some customers that try the pass modes to see the quality differences (as you might on a solvent printer for example) but because of the drop technology and the OMAS along with head nozzle monitoring the printer is pretty much the same print quality at almost all of the print pass modes so they assume they should just run 8-pass bidirectional on everything and then complain because some media doesn't cure properly ir is heat affected
In my experience cast vinyl needs to be run at 12-pass with a curing zone no hotter than 103degC. The mesh banner runs at 10-pass bidir low ink, with dry-55, cure-110 and the PVC backing is fractionally harder to get off after printing but not enough to matter in any way
Most monomeric and polymeric vinyl is ok at 10-pass bidir dry-55, cure-110 but a high quality polymeric vinyl such as 3M IJ poly must run at 12 pass or it gets heat affected.
So the key in all of this is even a really heat sensitive media like a thin polypro (that many assume doesn't work on latex) prints absolutely perfectly with no heat affect at all but you may have to slow the printer down a fraction. This should never be any concern because an L25500 (just like a L26500 now) is still running much faster than any of it's competitors even when run at a slower pass mode on the problem media. And if they want to run the printer faster they need to use a better grade product such as a thicker polypro that will be less heat affected
Usually in this "wet" situation people make the assumption they need to increase the curing but this is generally wrong. First you need to look at the "wet" print and establish if it's cured or not by trying to smudge the wet part with your finger. If its not cured the sole print will wipe off to the white of the media under, but generally what you will see when you do this test is only a small amount of ink coming off on our finger but most of it stays behind. Tis means that the print did actually cure, but that the water from the ink was not properly dried out by the first heater
In this case, keep the curing at the same setting if it is not heat affecting the media at this point and make sure the drying heater is set to the maximum 55. If it wasn't that may have been the problem. There is a cheat on the drying heater to get it above the 55 by increasing the "minimum drying power" to something like 1.1 or 1.2 (never go over 1.2 though because you can actually overheat that zone and get an error from the printer, under 1.2 will be fine).
When you increase the minimum power setting you are forcing the drying heater to run hotter and when you actually print if you look at the printer it will be running much hotter than 55 actually and this can often resolve the problem also The last thing that it's important to understand that curing a print in a L25500 is like baking a cake- if you want your cake quickly so you heat up the oven really hot and take the cake out early then the outside of the cake will be burnt and the inside uncooked. To point of that example is to help people understand that sometimes a media needs to be printed on a slower pass mode to give the heaters time to fully work but at a lower temperature in the case the media can't accept the heat very well.
I have some customers that try the pass modes to see the quality differences (as you might on a solvent printer for example) but because of the drop technology and the OMAS along with head nozzle monitoring the printer is pretty much the same print quality at almost all of the print pass modes so they assume they should just run 8-pass bidirectional on everything and then complain because some media doesn't cure properly ir is heat affected
In my experience cast vinyl needs to be run at 12-pass with a curing zone no hotter than 103degC. The mesh banner runs at 10-pass bidir low ink, with dry-55, cure-110 and the PVC backing is fractionally harder to get off after printing but not enough to matter in any way
Most monomeric and polymeric vinyl is ok at 10-pass bidir dry-55, cure-110 but a high quality polymeric vinyl such as 3M IJ poly must run at 12 pass or it gets heat affected.
So the key in all of this is even a really heat sensitive media like a thin polypro (that many assume doesn't work on latex) prints absolutely perfectly with no heat affect at all but you may have to slow the printer down a fraction. This should never be any concern because an L25500 (just like a L26500 now) is still running much faster than any of it's competitors even when run at a slower pass mode on the problem media. And if they want to run the printer faster they need to use a better grade product such as a thicker polypro that will be less heat affected