Need Help Laminate Turning Brown

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

i have seen this problem many times. not really sure what the real answer is.
my personal thoughts is its the break down of the laminate adhesive and then the uv rays cooking that layer.
i had to replace one sign because of this very reason and that was from a 3m material. off a solvant printer.
since switching to my latex i haven't had this problem yet. keyword being yet.

I'm not sure the manufacturers know. I've heard different things from different companies. One company says the UV protection on the laminate failed and replaces materials. Another company says it's the result of solvents outgassing and reacting with the adhesives in the laminate and it's not their fault (and you should let your prints outgas for the full 28 days to avoid the issue).

 

[equippaint]

I'm not sure with vinyl but with auto clear coats, a lot of the cheaper stuff doesn't have any UV inhibitors in it. Seems like a big waste to me, might as well paint the car with rustoleum. As far as I know, UV inhibitors increase the cost. Maybe vinyl is the same?

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

I'm not sure with vinyl but with auto clear coats, a lot of the cheaper stuff doesn't have any UV inhibitors in it. Seems like a big waste to me, might as well paint the car with rustoleum. As far as I know, UV inhibitors increase the cost. Maybe vinyl is the same?

Seems like a logical assertion to me. I'm not a chemist and I don't work for 3M, MACtac, or Avery though, so what do I know?

It makes sense, considering you can buy cheap laminates without any real UV protection, but once you start getting into the stuff that has seven plus year protection it starts getting pricier.

 

[TimToad]

On your stuff that you know the material or wraps in general? I'm sure plenty of people have used 210 or equally cheap lam on wraps. Plenty of chinese monomeric material out there too.

Sorry, I hit post before finishing. For all I know the wraps and other signs I assume would be cast or more importantly SHOULD be cast that I see browning are being done with garbage.

We have people in our area, one of the most expensive places to live in one of the most expensive states doing wraps for under $10 per square foot installed, so it wouldn't surprise me to learn they are doing them with garbage.

Hell, we get redos on wraps where our primary competitor didn't even laminate the prints and it faded to light grey in under two years. We always wondered why they seemed to always have more vehicle work than us. When you skip half the process and save half the material costs, its easy to underbid anybody.

 

[ams]

Good to know (from what the oracal guy said).

 

[GAC05]

210 has done that to me too. Not sure the solvent has anything to do with it as I have had the same results when I had a water based (pigment inkjet) Encad wide format.
I just figured it was an Oracal feature - early warning device to let you know your ink or base vinyl was about to give up.
Similar to the little metal clips installed with brake pads that start to squeal when the lining is about to be worn through.
Saving you from metal to metal contact on rotors.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[Sign Works]

Whats odd is that this doesn't occur with 290 lam and guess what, same ink & outgassing time frame as the 210 lam. I've got prints on vehicles & signs going on 10 plus years with the 290 lam that look fantastic but anything with 210 goes to shit before 4 years. My solution, I use 290 on everything that gets laminated.

 

[McDonald Signs]

Thanks for all of the responses. Since noticing the signs turning brown we have just switched back to the old way of doing what we can in Solid cut vinyl colors (Ex: Solid cut vinyl colors on white aluminum) and still doing alot of printed stuff, but telling customers that you get 3 to 5yrs of life on a digitally printed sign or decal. I'm having the same problem here whether it is cast or cheap stuff. Weve had this happen too on wraps on the roof & hood of vehicles so I'm assuming it's heat & sun doing it.
The Orajet 3651 vinyl does well by itself printed outdoors, haven't had problems with it, but unlaminated prints outdoors won't last but about 3yrs in direct sunlight around here. It is the 210g Laminate that is the problem in areas facing the sun. We have replaced several signs that one side of the sign is "burnt" brown and the other side is perfectly fine.
We also started using some 3M digital wrap and laminate and trying to see how that goes. Thanks