cptcorn
adad
Oh I am!... I even hug those rollers before I leave each night... finicky bastards!
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Laminating Long Runs... Problems...
- Thread starter cptcorn
- Start date
Oh I am!... I even hug those rollers before I leave each night... finicky bastards!
Vinyldog
New Member
Clubbing the Seal
I have been having the same problem with my Seal62 Ultra and alot of my prints run 15 to 20ft. long - I replaced the plastic bushings that the cams rotate on which helped and made some keeper pins for them as they were getting out of place at times.
I was advised by a sales rep (not seal) to have no visible gap across the full lenth of the roller so I adjusted them all the way down.
Since making that adjustment I was able to lam a 10ft. print with no problem but vinyl/feeler gauge method does make sense considering the Seal rollers are larger dia in the center and I can see how having it down all the way could be tough on the rollers.
Too bad I have to waste so much mat finding out what doesn't work.
I have been having the same problem with my Seal62 Ultra and alot of my prints run 15 to 20ft. long - I replaced the plastic bushings that the cams rotate on which helped and made some keeper pins for them as they were getting out of place at times.
I was advised by a sales rep (not seal) to have no visible gap across the full lenth of the roller so I adjusted them all the way down.
Since making that adjustment I was able to lam a 10ft. print with no problem but vinyl/feeler gauge method does make sense considering the Seal rollers are larger dia in the center and I can see how having it down all the way could be tough on the rollers.
Too bad I have to waste so much mat finding out what doesn't work.
sjm
New Member
If you're mounting to rigid substrates as well, we have found over time the feed roller will develop a bow, which will affect a simple lamination project. The height of the rollers will differ at the ends and in the center. Tighter at the ends and not as tight in the center. You can determine if this your issue my lowering your rollers less any material loaded and at looking across the feed roller to see if the roller height is uniform. i.e. do you see any gaps (light)?
If this is the case compensating for your straight laminate work will affect your mounting projects and vise versa.
We found rather that replacing the roller which is quite expensive, we adjusted our NIP to handle tracking straight for about 10'. That handles our mounting projects to 8' boards and for laminate work over 10 continuous feet, we include a 5" white gap between prints for cutting and re-webbing.
While not the best solution and as a roller replacement is not something we can afford at the moment, the 5" of laminate and material wasted between prints is a small price to pay when you stop to consider redoing an 8' graphic.
If this is the case compensating for your straight laminate work will affect your mounting projects and vise versa.
We found rather that replacing the roller which is quite expensive, we adjusted our NIP to handle tracking straight for about 10'. That handles our mounting projects to 8' boards and for laminate work over 10 continuous feet, we include a 5" white gap between prints for cutting and re-webbing.
While not the best solution and as a roller replacement is not something we can afford at the moment, the 5" of laminate and material wasted between prints is a small price to pay when you stop to consider redoing an 8' graphic.
Last edited:
Gene@mpls
New Member
I at first thought this was a question about how to feed the vinyl straight
into the laminator- but it now sounds like a laminator problem. This is my
solution to feeding the vinyl- the table is 11 x 5 ft and covered with a cutting
mat. I printed a series of alternating red and black stripes that lay under the
cutting map and allow precision alignment of the feed. But- I may still have
a suggestion- in the latest Grimco catalog there are accessories for the
Royal Sov laminators that may help- an extra feed roll holder and a motorized
takeup roller. If you are handy you may be able to adapt the feed roll assembly.
into the laminator- but it now sounds like a laminator problem. This is my
solution to feeding the vinyl- the table is 11 x 5 ft and covered with a cutting
mat. I printed a series of alternating red and black stripes that lay under the
cutting map and allow precision alignment of the feed. But- I may still have
a suggestion- in the latest Grimco catalog there are accessories for the
Royal Sov laminators that may help- an extra feed roll holder and a motorized
takeup roller. If you are handy you may be able to adapt the feed roll assembly.
Attachments
Slamdunkpro
New Member
I have a 54 base and routinely run whole roles. I load the source role on the bottom and feed it under the table. I set the pressure so that the 40% light just comes on, and I keep the feed role tension fairly high.
One thing I'd suggest is make sure the laminator is level.
One thing I'd suggest is make sure the laminator is level.
astro8
New Member
I think there is a lot of truth in this statement as I found out after replacing 2 sets of rollers...now we have a laminator and an applicator and never had a problem since.
A Seal Base 54 should be able to run roll after roll of perfectly laminated prints.
At least one does for another sign shop I know, who was doing my laminating whilst I was waiting for my new rollers and laminator.
Graphics.Atl
New Member
I found the best way to get consistent, wrinkle free lamination was by feeding the vinyl to be laminated between the rollers with them raised and then lowering once in the proper position. I found it helpful to tighten the feed roll tension so you can pull the vinyl taught before lowering the rollers. This does take to people. Are you using a take-up reel on your printer? Have you given any thought to whether or not the vinyl is rolled square and taught throughout. I experienced issues where it seemed the vinyl was buckling/wrinkling which I attributed to ink saturation in the middle and the strips of unprinted vinyl on each end (as you cannot print edge to edge). I just made sure the vinyl was laid out flat and rolled after it was dry. I should mention that at the time I did not have a take-up reel at the time. I hope this makes sense. There is a guy in Atlanta named Don Bahr, he consults on Seal machines and work flow if I remember correctly. He is an ex Seal tech if I remember correctly and very knowledgeable. www.smoothfinish.net
StopSignGraphics
New Member
+1 for Don Bahr at smoothfinish.net. He should be able to help.
I've ran a few different types of laminators...assuming that the machine is in proper working order and the nip is adjusted properly you should be able to laminate roll to roll without wrinkling.
One of the tricks that I've found that works quite well is to adjust your pressure down to zero when you start and have a good deal of tension on your laminate and substrate. With little to no pressure on the roller and high tension it seems to straighten the material within a couple of feet. I'll also start very slowly as the material starts to track straight I'll increase the pressure and adjust the tension accordingly.
Excessive pressure will tend to make the material warp. On my laminator a setting of about 20-25 psi seems to do the trick. I'll watch the material as its tracking through the laminator if I start to see rippling of any kind, I'll slow the laminator down to crawl and decrease the pressure until I see the material straighten.
Best of luck,
Chris
I've ran a few different types of laminators...assuming that the machine is in proper working order and the nip is adjusted properly you should be able to laminate roll to roll without wrinkling.
One of the tricks that I've found that works quite well is to adjust your pressure down to zero when you start and have a good deal of tension on your laminate and substrate. With little to no pressure on the roller and high tension it seems to straighten the material within a couple of feet. I'll also start very slowly as the material starts to track straight I'll increase the pressure and adjust the tension accordingly.
Excessive pressure will tend to make the material warp. On my laminator a setting of about 20-25 psi seems to do the trick. I'll watch the material as its tracking through the laminator if I start to see rippling of any kind, I'll slow the laminator down to crawl and decrease the pressure until I see the material straighten.
Best of luck,
Chris
grafixemporium
New Member
When you guys say to put high tension on the feed side are you referring to the laminate feed or the vinyl feed?
I have a 54 Base and have run into a few problems with the vinyl walking an inch or so left or right over long runs of 20 feet or more. However, I rarely have problems with the material buckling in the middle. In fact, the only time that's ever happened was when I experimented with adding tension to the vinyl supply roll. Typically, we throw the vinyl supply on the back roller and feed it around and over the table with no tension at all. It has worked like a champ. Of course, the laminate supply always has as much tension as possible... which is sometimes a challenge. Seems like they'd have developed a better way to add tension to the laminate roll by now.
So, I feed it over the table, one of my guys feeds it under the table because he has his own way of lining everything up to ensure a straight run. I worry about running it under the table because I don't want the table to scratch the prints. It's really close.
The one thing that bugs the crap outta me that no one has mentioned yet is the safety laser sensors. Every now an then for no reason at all, the sensor is tripped. Annoying. Has anyone attempted to bypass the laser sensor system??
I have a 54 Base and have run into a few problems with the vinyl walking an inch or so left or right over long runs of 20 feet or more. However, I rarely have problems with the material buckling in the middle. In fact, the only time that's ever happened was when I experimented with adding tension to the vinyl supply roll. Typically, we throw the vinyl supply on the back roller and feed it around and over the table with no tension at all. It has worked like a champ. Of course, the laminate supply always has as much tension as possible... which is sometimes a challenge. Seems like they'd have developed a better way to add tension to the laminate roll by now.
So, I feed it over the table, one of my guys feeds it under the table because he has his own way of lining everything up to ensure a straight run. I worry about running it under the table because I don't want the table to scratch the prints. It's really close.
The one thing that bugs the crap outta me that no one has mentioned yet is the safety laser sensors. Every now an then for no reason at all, the sensor is tripped. Annoying. Has anyone attempted to bypass the laser sensor system??
TCBinaflash
New Member
If you notice the buckling when laminating pause in between prints, lift the rollers to release the media tension and drop the rollers back down. It will beging to buckle but rinse and repeat and you will be fine. Just make sure you are inbetween prints or itwill leave a pressure line on you graphic.
Vinyldog
New Member
The Lay zor
The one thing that bugs the crap outta me that no one has mentioned yet is the safety laser sensors. Every now an then for no reason at all, the sensor is tripped. Annoying. Has anyone attempted to bypass the laser sensor system??
Maybe your lens is just dirty - try cleaning it but don't move that thing even a hair - if it gets out of position it's a real muther to get it lined back up.
The one thing that bugs the crap outta me that no one has mentioned yet is the safety laser sensors. Every now an then for no reason at all, the sensor is tripped. Annoying. Has anyone attempted to bypass the laser sensor system??
Maybe your lens is just dirty - try cleaning it but don't move that thing even a hair - if it gets out of position it's a real muther to get it lined back up.
fmg
New Member
There is a way to by-pass the safety lens and the wiring is housed inside the right side of the machine if you are looking at it.I did it once while I was awaiting a new safety lens from Seal however I cant remember which two wires that you need to shuffle about.
Call Seal they will possibly tell you.
1 800 257 7325 ext 8930 ask for Kim.
Call Seal they will possibly tell you.
1 800 257 7325 ext 8930 ask for Kim.
CheapVehicleWrap
New Member
LOL. Actually that part # has been superseded by flathands101
CheapVehicleWrap
New Member
I wonder if anyone's actually been flattened before. Sure would suck trying to use the mouse buttons with a flat hand.
Oh yeah. The guy that did our laminating somehow had disabled/by passed the lasers on his machine. He had the auto feed on one day and got pinched on one hand, could not reach the safety, fortunately he had a helper who could.
Broke his fingers, and his fingernails eventually fell off, they were flattened and black for a long time. I don't think they have the power to pull your whole arm in, but I'd not be interested in finding out for certain.
CheapVehicleWrap
New Member
Ouch. reminds me of he movie the machinist.
grafixemporium
New Member
We have issues with the safety laser sensor from time to time. It seems that the slightest spec of dust will trip that thing. Sometimes the tention on the vinyl supply will pull up on the table just enough to trip it too. There's never any rhyme or reason to it though. Sometimes it trips 10 times in one short run. Other times we can run 100 feet without it tripping once.