Laminating perforated vinyl

[MrDav3C]

Does anyone else have issues with laminating perforated vinyl?

We find that even using "optically clear" overlam then end result is then nowhere near optically clear in comparison to using no laminate at all.

Is this just an outgassing issue or am I missing something?

Typically we laminate pretty much every unless it's a banner but don't feel we can with perforated as how much it affects the end result.

Would love some advice on this, thanks in advance!

 

[ikarasu]

What optically clear are you using?

We use optically clear all the time on perf and it's fine... You can still see out of it just as if nothing was on it.

We use Avery and 3m optically clear, or 8518 when we're lazy as it's pretty optically clear as well.

 

[somcalmetim]

Cant really compare lam to non-lam visibility if the life-span is going to be even shorter than normal with no lam.
Getting slightly better visibility can't be worth half the lifespan especially when its going to be covered 50/50 or 60/40 with vinyl either way.

 

[hybriddesign]

we haven't really had any issues either. we vary our lam based on availability but have used GF, Arlon, one of the Oracal's (can't remember) without any issues. We rarely laminate it when we're doing building windows though as it seems to hold up without the lam pretty well and it's usually pretty short term. When we do laminate it with optically clear we don't see much distortion although maybe we're just getting lucky on the lam we happen to be using.

There are other threads on here though about the same issue and it always seemed that people ended up switching lam brands and fixed the issue.

 

[MelloImagingTechnologies]

I’ve been a dealer for perf for 20 years and we are up to 80/20!
The only time my customers use optically clear laminate is for bus windows so occupants can see out when it’s raining.

The manufacturers sales reps sometimes will tell you they have optically clear lam that’s not so I would tell them to bring over samples and I would apply to their car’s windsheild!
Bruce

 

[DAVID MARSHALL]

I use liquid laminate. Use a roller to apply a very light coat, let dry for ten minutes and hit it with a light coat again. If you use a heavy coat it will tend to run under the media and stop it from sticking so you need to be careful.

 

[MarkSnelling]

the key is to turn down the roller pressure on your laminator. The optically clear lam is only optically clear because it comes on a poly liner which allows for the adhesive to 'glide' off of the liner and not be distorted at all (like a normal paper liner would). If you are applying a bunch of pressure, then when you apply the laminate it will press down and through the holes and touch the release liner on the perf....and now the adhesive is distorted and you get a foggy clear.

The same is true when you apply to the window. Just even, steady pressure with your squeegee as if you push down hard enough for the adhesive to touch the glass, again, the adhesive will now be distorted and you'll have foggy holes.

How much pressure? 30psi or 30% should be good enough. All you really need to be sure your rollers are in contact with each other but not pressing down too much. You are welcome to call me to discuss.

As with the other comment, we sell a ton of perf and rarely do we recommend laminating it unless it is a vehicle susceptible to cleaning with brush or pressure wash. if you are buying cheap perf and laminating it to make it easier to remove, then just buy the good perf and it will remove in big pieces. The good perf is about what a cheap perf and an optically clear lam cost anyway (with no labor).

 

[MikePro]

gross.
sheet lamination of perforated graphics will never be clear, by nature of its application.

liquid lamination is the way to go if you want the clearest result OR printing a perforated graphic/pattern onto a sheet of clear vinyl.

 

[JBurton]

liquid lamination is the way to go if you want the clearest result OR printing a perforated graphic/pattern onto a sheet of clear vinyl.

I tried this, and first of all, a vector with that many holes/inch is going to crash repeatedly, a postscript fill did work well though.
Secondly, without white ink, or opaque ink I guess, it all disappears into the window/reflections.

 

[MikePro]

well that should be a give-in. if you're printing on clear, and most likely applying it onto a clear/tinted window, then you've gotta be able to print white or its a bust anyways.
however, I've never had a crash from printing a perforated fill pattern but I guess I've never tried doing it for anything more than a tenant panel or a reception window.

 

[Graphic Extremes]

gross.
sheet lamination of perforated graphics will never be clear, by nature of its application.

liquid lamination is the way to go if you want the clearest result OR printing a perforated graphic/pattern onto a sheet of clear viny

What liquid lamination would you use for perforated material. Does it fill in all the holes when you remove the perforated meterial from the backing?

 

[MikePro]

What liquid lamination would you use for perforated material. Does it fill in all the holes when you remove the perforated meterial from the backing?

I roll on ClearShield. Light coat, or two, and it doesn't fill in the holes.

 

[JBurton]

I roll on ClearShield. Light coat, or two, and it doesn't fill in the holes.

Does you perf of choice have a solid backer? I'm surprised this doesn't pool and fill, even with light coats.

 

[MikePro]

ya, paper-backed perf. lamex brand i believe. I roll on wet, and then re-roll with a dry/clean roller to spread&smooth.
it really is a PITA and worthy of a liquid laminator if you're doing it on the regular, or if that's even possible considering how much the process floods the material and would be concern for filling the holes, but I've been doing it this way with jobs that include up to a dozen 4'x8' windows ....but very few and far between.

lightly hand-rolling, however, results in just a tiny bit of liquid lam in the holes which dries & shrinks to little flecks of dandruff. I think my transfer tape has always caught it from being an issue during install, as I still have yet to see a flurry of debris while peeling the liner.