Lamination issues

[JBurton]

There ya go then! When the folds start, lay hands on it like Jesus, on the side the folds point upward to (I think), and wait for it to correct.
Your laminate is supposed to stretch to a degree when laminating onto prints, you just may need to upgrade your laminate to something that won't curl so quickly. Arlon 3420 is my go to entry level lam.

 

[Arsal Nadem]

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[Signature Sign Guys]

Maybe I worded it wrong, I didn't mean to crank up the tension. More like hold the roll to tighten up the little bit of slack, it will smooth it right out.

So I tried the hold the roll thing and it does get the lam to go straight and it helps but I have to constantly hold the roll for it to do so. As soon as I take my hand off it wants to pull in the one direction. Is that normally what you have to do with yours?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

So I tried the hold the roll thing and it does get the lam to go straight and it helps but I have to constantly hold the roll for it to do so. As soon as I take my hand off it wants to pull in the one direction. Is that normally what you have to do with yours?

Depends on how sloppy I was loading it but usually not. Might want to add a bit more tension, mine's a china brand and the tension setup on it never seems to stay adjusted right. I do keep my hand on the right side of the backer take up reel and try to keep it about at the front-center of the roller once it gets going (if that makes any sense?). Helps keep dirt off and also helps minimize the slack. I also don't crank the pressure on the roller, I just snug it a hair so it is basically just the weight of the roller. Too much pressure can skew it, at least from what I have gathered from fooling around with it.

 

[netsol]

More than likely what you think is square is not. An alignment error of 0.01" at the start will become an error of 0.96", close to an inch, at 8'.

we have built adjustable guides for every piece of equipment we own
(helps to compensate for our built in carelessness)

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Laminators are really forgiving if you pay attention. It's not rigid material. There's slop in the roll holders, you can grab sides of them and put a little pressure to get it to track back straight. You can grab the centers of rolls to work out wrinkles. It just takes a little thought and observation to figure it out. No need for any guides (no offense netsol), just use your head and observe so you can adjust on the fly.

 

[truckgraphics]

The really silly answer is don't laminate longer than eight...or 10 feet. We laminate off of a table, as it appears you are doing. What we have found is that if you go longer than 10 feet and are even slightly crooked, the weight of the material pulls on the laminate and bad things happen. Our laminating table is 8 feet long. We have another table to add to that, but don't use it for the reason stated.

I would imagine that the solution is to laminate off of a feeder roll, if you have that option. My experience with the feeder roll was that if you don't watch it, it tends to pull out of the holder. Maybe that's because it tends to run a little off kilter, but I'm not sure because we only used it once. That, of course, is just with my setup.

Anyway, we've just gone with the silly solution and avoided anything over 10 feet. (I tried a long one again recently....fool me twice....shame on me). If we (or you) absolutely had to laminate longer than 10 feet, I would experiment with cheap material on the feeder roll before burning a few hundred feet of expensive cast materials.

 

[Signature Sign Guys]

Depends on how sloppy I was loading it but usually not. Might want to add a bit more tension, mine's a china brand and the tension setup on it never seems to stay adjusted right. I do keep my hand on the right side of the backer take up reel and try to keep it about at the front-center of the roller once it gets going (if that makes any sense?). Helps keep dirt off and also helps minimize the slack. I also don't crank the pressure on the roller, I just snug it a hair so it is basically just the weight of the roller. Too much pressure can skew it, at least from what I have gathered from fooling around with it.

our roller is all weight based so I can't add pressure. Once the roller is down it's just the weight of the roller. I have noticed that I can get the straightest lam when I change out the backing paper take-up roll, so I am wondering if that is one of the causes when I attach the backing to the old rolls, I am not having it square

 

[Notarealsignguy]

our roller is all weight based so I can't add pressure. Once the roller is down it's just the weight of the roller. I have noticed that I can get the straightest lam when I change out the backing paper take-up roll, so I am wondering if that is one of the causes when I attach the backing to the old rolls, I am not having it square

Possibly, I pull off or swap backer rolls for every new run and also don't leave it webbed. Try it and see

 

[JBurton]

when I attach the backing to the old rolls, I am not having it square

When I do it, I use double stick, positioned so that when I pull the backer paper loose, I can tension it lightly against the core, and slowly lay it down onto the tape. This helps me keep it square vs just taping the center of the paper to the center of the core. Here's a drawing to clarify.

 

[Vortex37]

I was having similar issues with our Royal Sovereign after many years of successful operation. Machine is about 11 years old. We bought the pull scale and used it to even the pull across the rollers but after about 6 months it started slipping again. So we made the adjustment again and this time it only held for about 50 feet before it started walking off to the left again, about a full inch in less than 8 feet! Brought techs in and there’s a high spot on the top roller so no matter how you adjust, it’s always higher in that particular spot. Long story short there’s nothing we can do other than replace the rollers which is about the same as buying a new machine.
I don’t know if you can adjust the pull the same way on your machine but here’s the thread with the instructions on how to do it on a Royal Sovereign. I would try that first and if it still keeps walking to one side your rollers are probably worn out. https://www.signs101.com/threads/is-our-laminator-worn-out-need-feedback-royal-sovereign.159987/

 

[Notarealsignguy]

When I do it, I use double stick, positioned so that when I pull the backer paper loose, I can tension it lightly against the core, and slowly lay it down onto the tape. This helps me keep it square vs just taping the center of the paper to the center of the core. Here's a drawing to clarify.
View attachment 165273

I roll over masking tape and put it on each end and the center, same concept. I keep my backer lower where there's only about 3" of laminate exposed.

 

[JBurton]

I roll over masking tape and put it on each end and the center, same concept. I keep my backer lower where there's only about 3" of laminate exposed. View attachment 165322

I found that taping anything in addition to center f*cks me up, and me and masking tape have a long, hateful relationship with laminate backer...

 

[netsol]

I was having similar issues with our Royal Sovereign after many years of successful operation. Machine is about 11 years old. We bought the pull scale and used it to even the pull across the rollers but after about 6 months it started slipping again. So we made the adjustment again and this time it only held for about 50 feet before it started walking off to the left again, about a full inch in less than 8 feet! Brought techs in and there’s a high spot on the top roller so no matter how you adjust, it’s always higher in that particular spot. Long story short there’s nothing we can do other than replace the rollers which is about the same as buying a new machine.
I don’t know if you can adjust the pull the same way on your machine but here’s the thread with the instructions on how to do it on a Royal Sovereign. I would try that first and if it still keeps walking to one side your rollers are probably worn out. https://www.signs101.com/threads/is-our-laminator-worn-out-need-feedback-royal-sovereign.159987/

i would rather have a high spot, on my royal sovereign. than a crack or cut
you can always make a new best friend of a local machine shop owner & have him take a couple thousandths off the roller

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I found that taping anything in addition to center f*cks me up, and me and masking tape have a long, hateful relationship with laminate backer...

Ya gotta help it til the first wrap. I stand behind the laminator, run it real slow, get the one wrap on the backer, tape the print to the take-up then crank it up.

 

[Shred_signs]

I worked at a shop that had a laminator where the media roll didnt' have the same amount of tension. The bands that lock the media roll on were stretched out and would cause more tension on one side. Check your bands and make sure they are in good condition and you don't have to force the roll on at all.

Also, as above, could be the nip pressure.

 

[Vortex37]

i would rather have a high spot, on my royal sovereign. than a crack or cut
you can always make a new best friend of a local machine shop owner & have him take a couple thousandths off the roller

It’s nearly 12 years old so we’re just going to upgrade to a newer model and keep this one as a dedicated laminator for rigid substrates.