Lamination problem

[JohnShea]

Hey there.

I'm trying to do my business neighbor a favor by printing and lam'ing his reflective vinyl. This vinyl is EXPENSIVE! I have four tailgate pieces to do (reflective chevron). I have a GFP laminator and it's fairly new (1 year and moderate use). Some pieces come out fine and some I get a long air bubble every 3-5 inches. I'm using heat (2.5 on the dial). It looks like Silvering, and some are definitely really wide bubbles; ruining this man's vinyl.

I run it with the foot pedal and pretty slow ... about 2 or 3 on the dial. The top roller is tight to the bottom roller. The film doesn't appear to be walking and I don't get any wrinkles. When I take it off the reel and lay it out, all I see are the visible lines.

Suggestions on how to fix? I'm wasting too much of this expensive reflective vinyl.

The attached picture may be difficult to see the issue.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Looks like it's not going through straight? Don't over tighten the roller either and you really don't need heat. That's not silvering.

 

[JohnShea]

Looks like it's not going through straight? Don't over tighten the roller either and you really don't need heat. That's not silvering.

I don't really know what Silvering is. I guess that's obvious. lol

It is going in straight, believe it or not. Perhaps I'm over tightening it? I didn't have this problem with smaller sheet pieces (no roll).

With heat, I found it lays down smoother... until now. (Another question would be... what's the point of the heat option?)

THANK YOU!

 

[victor bogdanov]

Do your rollers have any defects/flat spots?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

So roll fed laminate does it but individual sheets don't? I'd definitely look at misalignment when you're setting it up. The heat could be compensating for it by stretching the laminate. If that's the case, you don't really want that.
I only use the weight of the roller, no extra tension.

 

[VizualVoice]

I don't really know what Silvering is. I guess that's obvious. lol

you know how if you get a dust speck there's a spot around it where the laminate isn't stuck down and it makes a little pocket? Silvering kinda looks like that but without the speck in the middle. It's just an area where the adhesive hasn't fully "wetted out" adhering to the surface below. It usually goes away on it's own overnight.

 

[JohnShea]

you know how if you get a dust speck there's a spot around it where the laminate isn't stuck down and it makes a little pocket? Silvering kinda looks like that but without the speck in the middle. It's just an area where the adhesive hasn't fully "wetted out" adhering to the surface below. It usually goes away on it's own overnight.

Gotcha. Thanks!

 

[cmoist]

Are you feeding off the rolls, or are you just running sheets through? I find it much harder to run sheets through than by using rolls. You don't get the proper tension on the vinyl and laminate, which causes things like that to happen, in my experience.

All that said, that looks much too uniform of a pattern, which points to flat spots on the roller or creases in the substrate or laminate. Was the laminate or vinyl rolled up and not on a core?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

It's not the roller, its operator error. When I first did roll to roll I got the exact same thing, lines of air and random small bubbles. It's been too long to remember but it was either how I loaded or it was from cranking down on the roller. Doing it sheet by sheet wastes too much time. If you take your time loading it all straight, you can laminate a miles worth of material with no issue, even with the crappiest of machines.

 

[DL Signs]

Less is more when laminating.
Use the least amount of tension on the lam feed and liner take up that you can, just enough to keep it from having slack, and not a lot of roller pressure. What happens is if you have too much tension on the lam, it'll stretch the lam, then let some go over and over and cause those lines. Everything has too run smooth and steady, too much pressure or tension is your enemy. Heat will help set the adhesive on cold lam and reduce silvering, but it doesn't really take a lot, if yours adjusts, set it low.

 

[guillermo]

is this encapsulating (hot lamination) or it is just cold lamination?
check for rollers if there is a flat area, (when not in use, leave the rollers open, to prevent becoming flat)

 

[JohnShea]

I'm back. Still having issues.

What's this? Or more importantly, why?

Just under 2 roller temp wise. It only did this in the beginning. The rest was fine.

 

[Geneva Olson]

looks awfully tight to me. boat waves

 

[Geneva Olson]

It's not the roller, its operator error. When I first did roll to roll I got the exact same thing, lines of air and random small bubbles. It's been too long to remember but it was either how I loaded or it was from cranking down on the roller. Doing it sheet by sheet wastes too much time. If you take your time loading it all straight, you can laminate a miles worth of material with no issue, even with the crappiest of machines.

I will spend 30 minutes rerolling my material just to make sure it gets through the laminator straight. (one of these days I will buy a take up reel for my printer and I won't have to worry about it as much anymore)

 

[Stacey K]

Waaaay too tight like Geneva said. Less is more

 

[MarkSnelling]

I've said "less is more" more than anyone on the planet when installing laminators....people just ignore it. Dial back your supply tension...you shouldn't really need any. Make sure your pressure isn't max'd out, either. I can't quite make it out, but if the sides of the print look better than the middle of the print, then that is a sure sign of too much pressure (the roller is bending up in the middle because of extreme pressure on the sides). Back the tension and pressure off and try it again.

If you are hearing anything resembling a "clunk" every so often, then you may need to take a link out of the chain. Anyone who works on motorcycles could help you with that if you don't know how to do it. Those 1" looking stripes make me think the rollers might be jumping because the chain is too loose. Just a thought there.

 

[ChicagoGraphics]

Use the foot peddle only to get material into the rollers then speed it up, see if that clears up your problem

 

[citysignshop]

I'm back. Still having issues.

What's this? Or more importantly, why?

Just under 2 roller temp wise. It only did this in the beginning. The rest was fine.

I'm sure someone will ask what kind of laminator, or did I miss that? I do a lot of Diamond-grade reflective, and have not seen this, but my process is 'cold'. BUT....the stuff has an amazingly slippery backing sheet. If you bottom roller is slipping as it tries to drive the sheet thru, then possibly your are getting these 'skips' and skids in the laminate.
I've taped small jobs to a sled to help the laminator drive it thru evenly...that might remove one possible variant.
Frankly it doesn't look that serious in the photos...does running it thru again, or at 90 degrees with heat not take out the problems spots? what kind of laminate are you using? perhaps another type will react differently.

 

[Goatshaver]

I'm sure someone will ask what kind of laminator, or did I miss that? I do a lot of Diamond-grade reflective, and have not seen this, but my process is 'cold'. BUT....the stuff has an amazingly slippery backing sheet. If you bottom roller is slipping as it tries to drive the sheet thru, then possibly your are getting these 'skips' and skids in the laminate.
I've taped small jobs to a sled to help the laminator drive it thru evenly...that might remove one possible variant.
Frankly it doesn't look that serious in the photos...does running it thru again, or at 90 degrees with heat not take out the problems spots? what kind of laminate are you using? perhaps another type will react differently.

It's a GFP laminator he said.

I'm back. Still having issues.

What's this? Or more importantly, why?

Just under 2 roller temp wise. It only did this in the beginning. The rest was fine.

Looks like when I laminate with loose sheets of vinyl and laminate on my GFP 363. Tension isn't even and something seems like it's causing the laminate to go from high tension to less and back again.
I've never had this issue when laminating from a roll to a sheet or another roll.