• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

Large Mural sign frame

W

Warhammer

New Member
This yahoo in my city yeeted his car off that upper parking lot and through this iconic mural at a record shop. I've put in a bid to replace the sign. I would love to have my work displaying this amazing piece of art.

I've had a talk with an engineer and wind load on this is significant requiring 30lbs per square foot in normal conditions. Being 8' x 24' set approximately 12" off the ground, it'll require four 24"x48 concrete footers to withstand 5700lbs lateral force. Posts set in the footers (blah)

I have never been a fan of putting posts in the footers. Wood shrinks, wind movement of the posts, eventually even reinforced footers will begin to fail.

Anyone here use the MPB66Z post base from Simpson strongtie for a standalone sign application?

The engineer thought based on calculations that I brought to him it would work but even the Simpson rep I spoke to wasn't familiar with that application.

The lateral force those bases can take in cage #4 reinforced concrete is 3500lbs each. So on paper the lateral force far exceeds the minimum standard I was given by the engineer (14,000 vs the min.

5,700) and in my opinion it will help the mural last a lifetime.

Question I guess is what does the community think or has anyone had a similar experience on this option? I would use a 24" x 48" footer, rebar caged reinforcement with the post base integrated into the cage. I'll have 4000psi concrete poured into each footer after the cages are set.


Curious on the discussion.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3177.jpeg
    IMG_3177.jpeg
    249.4 KB · Views: 72
Last edited:
visual800

visual800

Active Member
Why raise the sign when someone could design steel guardrail in parking lot behind it", that would be more cost effective. the sign looks great as it is raising it 12' would be weird looking and basically uncalled for
 
W

Warhammer

New Member
Not sure if my response got through so I hit the reply button this time. Hoping to get some engagement on this, thanks!
 
Last edited:
W

Warhammer

New Member
visual800 said:
Why raise the sign when someone could design steel guardrail in parking lot behind it", that would be more cost effective. the sign looks great as it is raising it 12' would be weird looking and basically uncalled for
Click to expand...
The sign was destroyed. New guardrail and new retaining wall is there. The sign is being rebuilt the same it was before a car drive through it. And the client wants the sign off the ground about 12 inches like it was originally. Do y’all put wood posts in the concrete or on any type of post base? The ones I have used in high wind areas for structures are incredibly strong but I’m unfamiliar with standalone application without a whole structure system (walls, roof, sheathing) working together to resist lateral forces from wind.
 
visual800

visual800

Active Member
Im so stupid I read that as 12' instead of 12" jesus I need stronger glasses

I would use aluminum posts 4x4 approx 6 of them. I would bury them 36" that will suffice. I would use 2x2 aluminum for the frame work to hold the panels bolting the frame to the posts thru and thru. no sense in overthinking this and using some high dollar bs...I always place tap screws in my posts when i bury in congrete for better anchorage
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I'm no engineer, but have done quite a bit of this up until the engineers hadda get their greedy little paws into our industry.

The metal braces you're indicating are basically for fences, decks and the kinda stuff which is tied in from lotsa angles. With all but 200 sq ft of solid sail, I don't think that will work. Even a telegraph pole with basically no wind resistance is set wa-a-ay further down then those things go. What does the engineer responsible for that vicinity say about it ??
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
JBurton said:
For me, it's something this visible. We have numerous billboard structures made from telephone poles, but those structures are ugly, but well off the road and not often scrutinized.
Click to expand...

Thought I was using your lingo. Changing horses in the middle of the stream, isn't very nice. :notworthy:
 
W

Warhammer

New Member
Gino said:
I'm no engineer, but have done quite a bit of this up until the engineers hadda get their greedy little paws into our industry.

The metal braces you're indicating are basically for fences, decks and the kinda stuff which is tied in from lotsa angles. With all but 200 sq ft of solid sail, I don't think that will work. Even a telegraph pole with basically no wind resistance is set wa-a-ay further down then those things go. What does the engineer responsible for that vicinity say about it ??
Click to expand...
Yeah those are the most substantial post bases typically used in pole framed structures where there’s a significant seismic or weather code requirements. Based on just math they would work but the more I bounce this around the more I think they’re definitely intended to work in a system not standalone.

And the engineer said bury posts in the piers which I think just starts the clock on how long this thing will last. They’re treating this project as a typical “sign” not a piece of art to be displayed. Unfortunately since it’s insurance related they will likely have a hard time getting proper materials cost covered I.e. $10,000 in square aluminum tubing…
 
W

Warhammer

New Member
visual800 said:
Im so stupid I read that as 12' instead of 12" jesus I need stronger glasses

I would use aluminum posts 4x4 approx 6 of them. I would bury them 36" that will suffice. I would use 2x2 aluminum for the frame work to hold the panels bolting the frame to the posts thru and thru. no sense in overthinking this and using some high dollar bs...I always place tap screws in my posts when i bury in congrete for better anchorage
Click to expand...
Haha all good.

I will probably see about this option. It’ll be quite a bit more in materials. But I had a brace frame drawn up to reduce warping on the 6x6s and that’s a heck of a lot of work with no guarantee it won’t check and mess up the mural. Thanks so much for adding to the conversation!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top