try saying it with me "minisplit"
the 64" printer is a good idea. if you get a smaller printer, every customer will want something just a bit bigger than you can produce
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Latex Printer in apartment?
- Thread starter Jo Hill
- Start date
the 64" printer is a good idea. if you get a smaller printer, every customer will want something just a bit bigger than you can produce
victor bogdanov
Active Member
Have you done any comparisons on laminated vs unlaminated?
Most of what I do is indoor graphics but I do a ton of stickers and other outdoor decals and I do not laminate. 0 issues and the unlaminated outdoor stuff I have in the Houston heat looks new after 4+ years.
I have test stickers on my dumpster (gets so hot you can't touch it), unlaminated cheap vinyl with Roland eco-solvent inks, looks new over 3 years old now. Colorado prints also look new almost 2 years old.
There are some storefront concealed carry vinyl I applied about 6 years ago, printed on cheap 5 year vinyl, unlaminated with Eco Sol Max 2 inks, looks new to this day, I go to that location frequently and see the sign couple of times per month
Small stickers look much nicer on 6mil vinyl with UV ink texture than laminated vinyl IMO
I do give an option when pricing things out for a cast vinyl option + laminate etc but so far everyone has gone with calendared unlaminated based on price
UberDapr
New Member
Can i ask why you dont laminate wall graphics?
victor bogdanov
Active Member
Why would you?
my unlaminated wall graphics have over 15k five star reviews on various marketplaces where the customers are very critical, most negative experiences are related to wall texture
It depends. Most stickers take abuse... laminate isn't just for UV protection. If youre throwing a sticker on a dumpster no one will touch, it'll still look good for a few years.
If you're selling 100 stickers to some guy who's going to give them out for people to throw on their laptops or other devices.... it'll take more abuse, and vinyl scratches a heck of a lot easier than laminate does. Print something on a 4" x 4" piece of acyrlic, laminate one side and leave the other side non laminated. Throw it in your pocket for the day with your keys / other items, and see how it looks at the end of the day.
Latex ink is great and doesn't scratch easy... but it's still not bulletproof.
Same with cleaning. Odds are your stickers will be cleaned sometime in their life - I haven't tested in awhile, but I remember testing alcohol on a latex print, and while it didn't do a ton of damage it changed the cloths color. We've used alcohol to fix head strikes before because it'll wipe the ink right off .... it may be stronger when it sits for a few days, but I haven't tested that. Most laminates can handle pretty much any cleaning chemical no problem.
For the price of laminate, the only reason not to laminate is to save time or because you have no laminator. I'd say even a $150 roll of laminate is better than no laminate in cheap calandered / sticker items.
And most people who don't laminate tend to use the cheapest vinyl where laminate matters the most.
And it depends on the print too. I was driving yesterday, and I had to point out to my wife how all the no parking signs had the red circle missing... the signs had a sticker on them that they were made 4 years ago. There was no overlam on it, the signs looked perfect except the red was missing, or yellow.... I don't know how they were created, but screen print should.lasg 10ish years, and roll to roll should last 10ish years. My guess is they were using aftermarket ink... or non specced ink on a material they shouldn't have.
UV laminate may have given it an extra year or two - but I always see signs where red is missing or yellowing, and it's always signs with no UV overlam on it.
We do, but mainly because our wall graphics are in hospitals / high clean areas.
But for stuff like wallpaper or textured wall graphics, you can't laminate them. We don't do too much with textured stuff, and would laminate if we could... but so far it hasn't been a problem.
Theoretically latex ink is very scratch resistant and it should be fine, anything that will hit a wall and damage a print will likely be strong enough to rio through the lam as well. I only worry about some $7 an hour janitor coming by and squirting bleach on it to clean it off.... at least with overlam it'll be protected, but with no overlam I imagine it'll ruin the print.
victor bogdanov
Active Member
Wouldn't be possible for me to compete online if I had to laminate the 3-4 rolls per day of the vinyl that I could laminate. extra $600 per day on laminate is a significant expense with no added benefit for most customers. Customers are happy without it and will not pay more
When doing it online you're usually competing with the bottom of the barrel sellers though.
Look at all the big sticker shops. Sticker mule, sticker app, sticker you, pretty much every single sticker shop that's known uses laminate.
I chase after clients that want quality - if they want to pay half the price, they can go elsewhere.
Im a manager of a large shop that's been in business for 25 years. Our prices are insanely high.... we sell 1" x 3" stickers for 75 cents to a manufacturer who does 210k in business a year with us because they love our work. Our material cost is like 5 cents with laminate.... they stock with us because of our quality, even though I'm sure a cheap sticker with no overlam would acomplish the same thing they're after.
If you're able to compete online and make as much as you do, that's great! There's a market for everything. The vast majority of people should be laminating most, if not all projects though... you have more knowledge in what can / can't get away without being laminated than some guy wanting to lug a printer up into his apartment building.
I even laminate real estate signs... the bottom of the barrel when it comes to signage, and I know they'll be going in the garbage in a month when the Coro rips in half. They like the super gloss look that's not possible without a laminate. Our competitors don't.... and we've won over so many brokerages because of that. A flatbed is a nice good way to print signs quick.... but guess what happens when a realtor throws a sold sticker on their sign, then peels it off for their next house? Half the sign comes with the sticker.... throw on some overlam and that problem goes away.
It costs a bit more, but overlam always makes the product a bit more premium.
Look at all the big sticker shops. Sticker mule, sticker app, sticker you, pretty much every single sticker shop that's known uses laminate.
I chase after clients that want quality - if they want to pay half the price, they can go elsewhere.
Im a manager of a large shop that's been in business for 25 years. Our prices are insanely high.... we sell 1" x 3" stickers for 75 cents to a manufacturer who does 210k in business a year with us because they love our work. Our material cost is like 5 cents with laminate.... they stock with us because of our quality, even though I'm sure a cheap sticker with no overlam would acomplish the same thing they're after.
If you're able to compete online and make as much as you do, that's great! There's a market for everything. The vast majority of people should be laminating most, if not all projects though... you have more knowledge in what can / can't get away without being laminated than some guy wanting to lug a printer up into his apartment building.
I even laminate real estate signs... the bottom of the barrel when it comes to signage, and I know they'll be going in the garbage in a month when the Coro rips in half. They like the super gloss look that's not possible without a laminate. Our competitors don't.... and we've won over so many brokerages because of that. A flatbed is a nice good way to print signs quick.... but guess what happens when a realtor throws a sold sticker on their sign, then peels it off for their next house? Half the sign comes with the sticker.... throw on some overlam and that problem goes away.
It costs a bit more, but overlam always makes the product a bit more premium.
Stacey K
I like making signs
I'm not sure if all of that was for me? Yes - the $1000 is nothing compared to the printer but just another thing he needs to think about.
I have central air in my shop and a humidifier. If I know my printer is running all day I set my thermostat lower and open the windows. My printer is in an area that is 25x30 or maybe larger with 12' ceilings. If I was in a smaller area the fumes would bother me. I could NOT sit in a bedroom and print all day.
This coming March will be my second year having it. I don't know the exact numbers yet but I can see already that it has been profitable for me to have it vs. sending out prints. It's allowed me to do a lot more work and start doing partial wraps. Some people don't like banners...I really enjoy doing them and with our school being VERY last minute, it's allowed me to do "senior sports banners" same or next day if needed. The school thinks I'm a hero. Being that I'm a small shop I have a lot of smaller orders that get pushed out fast, it's definitely been helpful to have a printer on-site vs. waiting...especially when you screw up or need to color match.
I think the calendar year of 2023 will be a good indication for me. When I first got it, it took me a while to figure everything out and I screwed up a lot of prints dialing my laminator in. 2023 I seemed to have a pretty good handle on the printer.
victor bogdanov
Active Member
That's a hefty price when that size costs 8.5 cents at any of the big online sticker companies for 10k quantities. I would feel guilty charging that much
Stacey K
I like making signs
My shop looks like that sometimes also. My back room is a disaster. I work plenty of 12+ hour days and the last thing I want to do is break down cardboard. I'm kind of a cardboard and garbage bag hoarder, oh well. It will slow down soon so I know I'll have time to take care of it LOL I try and keep my front room pretty clean so I don't look like a total slob. If it was super perfect customers would think I'm not busy...at least that's what I tell myself...I debated posting these because my place is a mess...An embarrassing mess I'd never want anyone to see... usually its not like this, but I figured I'd post just to show how bad it can get.
It was the perfect storm - holes in the ceilings because I just had Central AC installed and I havent had them patch them yet.... I just did a 200+ banner order, so banner is all over the floor... Ran out of garbage bags and got tired of lugging them up the stairs. Due to me getting central AC installed, I had to rush and just shove everything into my vinyl room and push everything out of the way where they needed to do holes, so theres garbage everywhere, items where they normally arent, nothing is organized and just thrown aroundSo usually it isnt THIS bad... but It does get a bit messy, and Saturday / Sunday is usually my clean up day.
In the basement you don't see my graphtec because it's off being repaired. In the garage behind the printer you'll notice I started painting it and never finished... no one comes into the room but me, so I don't care. I'll paint it when I sell it. You'll also see a little Batman logo... I don't sell copyrighted stuff, I swearI just got my laser a few weeks ago, and it came with some yellow / black lamacoid, and that was the only thing I could think of to cut to test it. It was the very first thing I cut and looks so horrible my kid didnt even want it, I just havent trashed it yet because again, busy! I think thats all the embarrassing stuff I have to try to explain away
Theres 1 more room I didnt get a photo of that I use for larger materials and job storage. It's filled to the brim with stuff for my AC install though, so no point in getting a photo. But I went from just using the garage with a Graphtec + Printer + laminator... to now taking up the full garage, Full 800 SQFT downstairs room, The office in the main floor, a storage room (This one is for all my install tools and other stuff, so it doesn't really count) And another room for working on projects and storing projects that take a decent amount of time.
My biggest focus right now is finding a shop. I wish I got one years ago... The price for a 1000-1500 SQFT shop in my area, which probably isnt big enough... is $5-7K a month. I could rent a house for less than that... but I want a proper shop... I just cant stomache the idea of dumping half my proffit into a shop for whats supposed to be a secondary income to my main job. One day if I quit, or get fired... I wont hesitate, but for now I'll keep looking for cheap.
If I were to go back, I wouldn't put a printer in my house - It's nice and convenient, but it's a drain on your personal life... As well as you end up being stuck. When I finish a job... I don't want to clean, I'm tired and I go upstairs and watch TV, or spend time with the family... Keeping work and home life separate is important for a lot of reasons! Especially in USA... There are so many trade printers that will print stuff for you for close to what you could print it for, and have it shipped in a day or two to your location...
Having a printer in your house can work out...Victor became successful doing it, I make a decent chunk doing it... But there is a trade off, if you're in a place with cheap real estate and can drop 1-3K a month on a place, start off by doing it properly - If you cant do 1-3K a month in sales, its the wrong business for you anyways
It's a special CSA / UL approved , high tack material... not something most shops, or online retailers charge.
Ontop of it they order between 3-10k and need it within days, so they're kind of a priority customer.
They've been to 3 other shops, and came back to us after a year because no one could keep up with demand / quality.
I think any label press shop could do it - probably faster than we can and on the same material... but they like us, we've been doing their decals for a good 8+9 years (1 year ago before that when they found a diff supplier... and 1 year before that) so close to 10 years.
It's the same with a specific aircraft carrier we do decals for - they have a small window of 2 days to get decals, inside and outside for their planes while they're in the shop. They never give more than a 3 day window to do stuff ... but we charge $6-700 for a 4 ft by 3 ft decal.
It goes with what I was saying before, people pay for quality and service - the money these guys make on their products means if stuff is delayed... they're losing thousands of dollars an hour / day. So they pay a premium and know they can trust us.
We cater to people.the online companies can't cater to. I'd say 75% of our customers pay a higher price than what other shops charge.... with Realtors being the exception. We focus on quality and service, not a race to the bottom.... it's kept us afloat for enough to teach us that we don't need to chase after the penny pinchers!
Funny thing is, I shut down the shop I work at 20 mins early everyday so people can keep their areas clean. I setup a horn to go off and we're strict about it.... it does get messy when we're busy of course, but we push the keep it clean a lot!
At home though.... the moment I'm done the job I've been procrastinating to do, I'm upstairs on the couch or in the shower and going to bed. I let it get bad for a week....I've spent the whole day cleaning today and its not clean yet
main reason I want a shop.... I don't want to live where I work anymore!But it's another point people don't realize. I go through at least 4 roll boxes a week.... banner rolls are a pain, all the empty cores.... the bags of garbage from material waste, banner tape backing.... I just had 100 24 x 24 sheets of coro I had to get rid of, house shapes cut out of them for a realtor... but the amount of space the waste takes up is a ton, almost a truckload by itself. it's crazy. I can't imagine getting rid of that in an apartment complex. I end up taking a full truckload of garbage / recycling to the garbage dump every 2 weeks. There's so much garbage produced when you're running a print shop, running one out of a home is sketchy... running one out of an apartment seems impossible.
victor bogdanov
Active Member
i actually used to take most of my trash to a nearby apartment complex as they had lots of dumpsters, I had way more trash that my home trash collection wanted to take
Stacey K
I like making signs
You're lucky your local dump takes it! Mine won't, they only take household items and only small amounts at a time. It's run by the Soup Nazi. If you think you are dumping off more than a punched hole of drywall...NO DUMPING FOR YOU! More than a chair? NO DUMPING FOR YOU! Branches are more than 4" thick....NO DUMPING FOR YOU! Cardboard...DO DUMPING FOR YOU! If you remodel or do a clean out they make you get a dumpster, he won't let you take it to the dump. I have a couple friends who were banned from the dump so I'm very careful...Funny thing is, I shut down the shop I work at 20 mins early everyday so people can keep their areas clean. I setup a horn to go off and we're strict about it.... it does get messy when we're busy of course, but we push the keep it clean a lot!
At home though.... the moment I'm done the job I've been procrastinating to do, I'm upstairs on the couch or in the shower and going to bed. I let it get bad for a week....I've spent the whole day cleaning today and its not clean yet
But it's another point people don't realize. I go through at least 4 roll boxes a week.... banner rolls are a pain, all the empty cores.... the bags of garbage from material waste, banner tape backing.... I just had 100 24 x 24 sheets of coro I had to get rid of, house shapes cut out of them for a realtor... but the amount of space the waste takes up is a ton, almost a truckload by itself. it's crazy. I can't imagine getting rid of that in an apartment complex. I end up taking a full truckload of garbage / recycling to the garbage dump every 2 weeks. There's so much garbage produced when you're running a print shop, running one out of a home is sketchy... running one out of an apartment seems impossible.
Once a year I usually get a small dumpster delivered for about $350. It's better than having a dumpster on-site, they are around $200 a month.
shepherddesigns
New Member
That isn't correct. You need two outlets on a 20 amp circuit. I have had a 315 for 5 or 6 years and have been running it off a single 20 amp circuit.
I believe the 360 specs a 20 and a 15 amp. Can you run it off of 1 20? Probably, but your taxing your wiring and breaker.. odds are you'll be fine, but just wait until it starts a fire and they say you weren't following the spec so no insurance payment for you.
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
I started out without a laminator and very quickly got one. If you don't have a laminator, you are doing an injustice to your customer and yourself. you are letting your work go out of your business unprotected.
So the 315 doesnt require a dedicated line... But the 365 uses more power and amperage and does require a dedicated breaker.... Should be verrry careful when posting about power requirements that could potentially burn someones house down at worst, or at best cause them to have to bring an electrician out a second time once they see their breaker keeps tripping!
shepherddesigns
New Member
My comment was 315 specific. HP documentation requires 2 poles, 30 mA residual, at least 20 A capacity. Max load printing is 3 A and for curing is 13 A.