legacy plotter embosstrack 48

[jdsfw]

i recently acquired an older gerber embosstrack 48. i saw it cut from a computer before we purchased it, but i'm having an awful time getting it going.

i'm attempting to cut from signlab, though i suppose i could grab the flexisign from the other store. anyway, my questions are...

with older hardware like this, am i better off using the serial port, or a serial/usb adapter? will i likely get it to work without using proprietary gerber software?

unfortunately i'm not aware of the software that was used on it previously. signlab has a (driver) for the gerber embosstrack device which loads fine, however i can't get any interaction. i'm currently using the serial port, and the port configuration dialog has many options which differ from the signlab port setup, and some which don't exist. it supports serial rs232 and centronix, the latter of which i am not equipped with.

the manual states that communication default setting #2 is the default communication terms for gerber software, but i'm unable to enter those settings into signlab as the signlab port setup dialog is much more concise. purchasing the gerber software is impractical at this time.

i've tried the embosstrack driver, the mutoh xp driver (that machine is a rebranded mutoh xp), a generic hpgl(2) driver, and the hp7475 (i believe) substitute driver, all to no avail.

thanks in advance for your thoughts, and if this post is in the wrong section i apologize.

connor

 

[Tony Teveris]

Not having one of those around any more I THINK it uses a subset of HPGL commands. The Gerber software uses the com port with settings of 9600,n,8,1.

I hope that is some help.

 

[jdsfw]

Not having one of those around any more I THINK it uses a subset of HPGL commands. The Gerber software uses the com port with settings of 9600,n,8,1.

I hope that is some help.

indeed it is of some help, confirming that those settings are correct, and the problem lies elsewhere. as for the language, i'm using (from the menu) MH-GL/2 HP-GL compatible emulation. i haven't found an option to configure the language on signlab, other than choosing a generic HPGL driver, an actual HP7475 (i believe) driver, or another that i somehow deemed worth trying.

my graphtec plotter was a breeze to configure, but this gerber is causing me to pull my hair out. with those settings on both the plotter and signlab, i get no framing error or other comm error (immediately upon plugin), however i still see no communication to the plotter. the comm menu of the plotter asks for DTR, CTS, and RTS values, none of which are specifiable in signlab, and the flowcontrol which i assume is the handshake protocol offers different options on either end. i've read of people cutting to these with flexisign. would it be worth rounding that software from the other store to give it a try? or would i likely encounter the same comm problems with a similar host setup system?

additionally, should i be configuring the port settings in windows device manager as well?

thanks so much for your input.

connor

 

[Jim Doggett]

i recently acquired an older gerber embosstrack 48. i saw it cut from a computer before we purchased it, but i'm having an awful time getting it going.

i'm attempting to cut from signlab, though i suppose i could grab the flexisign from the other store. anyway, my questions are...

with older hardware like this, am i better off using the serial port, or a serial/usb adapter? will i likely get it to work without using proprietary gerber software?

unfortunately i'm not aware of the software that was used on it previously. signlab has a (driver) for the gerber embosstrack device which loads fine, however i can't get any interaction. i'm currently using the serial port, and the port configuration dialog has many options which differ from the signlab port setup, and some which don't exist. it supports serial rs232 and centronix, the latter of which i am not equipped with.

the manual states that communication default setting #2 is the default communication terms for gerber software, but i'm unable to enter those settings into signlab as the signlab port setup dialog is much more concise. purchasing the gerber software is impractical at this time.

i've tried the embosstrack driver, the mutoh xp driver (that machine is a rebranded mutoh xp), a generic hpgl(2) driver, and the hp7475 (i believe) substitute driver, all to no avail.

thanks in advance for your thoughts, and if this post is in the wrong section i apologize.

connor

I'd go with HPGL and Com 1, but make sure the port-state it set correctly and that the cutter is in HPGL mode, too. I think that'll get you home, fingers crossed.

Good luck. It's actually a pretty nice cutter.

 

[jdsfw]

I'd go with HPGL and Com 1, but make sure the port-state it set correctly and that the cutter is in HPGL mode, too. I think that'll get you home, fingers crossed.

Good luck. It's actually a pretty nice cutter.

that's where i'm at now, com1 with HPGL. i'm no longer receiving i/o errors, but i think i'm having trouble with the "port-state" as signlab only asks for baud, data/stop bits, parity, and flow control, while the plotter insists i specify readytosend, cts, dtr, etc.

the cutter is great, despite it's age, it seems nicer than my 3yr old graphtec in more than one way. the demo was impressive, and the test plot from the menu just FLIES through the cuts at 8in/sec with no shredding on the finer cuts.

thanks everybody for your thoughts, i can't wait to get this slicing and dicing!

connor

 

[Tony Teveris]

What cable are you using - I assume it's a 9 pin to 25 pin standard cable.

 

[jdsfw]

i am using the supplied 25-25pin parallel cable with the supplied 25-9pin adapter.

should i source a cable 25-9pin cable? according to the manual, and the fellow who sold the plotter to me, the adapter was included with the plotter from the factory. the only modification i've done is to include a female-female gender changer. i've tried both original serial port from the mainboard, as well as an aftermarket pci bus serial port, both of which exhibit the same thing: nothing.

thanks!

connor

 

[Jim Doggett]

that's where i'm at now, com1 with HPGL. i'm no longer receiving i/o errors, but i think i'm having trouble with the "port-state" as signlab only asks for baud, data/stop bits, parity, and flow control, while the plotter insists i specify readytosend, cts, dtr, etc.

the cutter is great, despite it's age, it seems nicer than my 3yr old graphtec in more than one way. the demo was impressive, and the test plot from the menu just FLIES through the cuts at 8in/sec with no shredding on the finer cuts.

thanks everybody for your thoughts, i can't wait to get this slicing and dicing!

connor

If the serial connection doesn't work, here's the USB driver install at mutoh.be, for the Ultima, which I think is the Gerber embosstrack: http://www.mutoh.be/large-format-pr...-results/page.aspx/1344?sRequest=Ftdiunin.exe

For com port state, this is pretty typical:

Baud rate: 9600
Parity: NONE or N
Data bits: 8
Stop Bits: 1
Data Flow Control: Hardware

Best Regards,

 

[Jim Doggett]

i am using the supplied 25-25pin parallel cable with the supplied 25-9pin adapter.

should i source a cable 25-9pin cable? according to the manual, and the fellow who sold the plotter to me, the adapter was included with the plotter from the factory. the only modification i've done is to include a female-female gender changer. i've tried both original serial port from the mainboard, as well as an aftermarket pci bus serial port, both of which exhibit the same thing: nothing.

thanks!

connor

Not all serial cables are alike. Cutter makers often have custom pin-outs. Check with Mutoh or Gerber on whether you have the correct serial cable.

 

[jdsfw]

If the serial connection doesn't work, here's the USB driver install at mutoh.be, for the Ultima, which I think is the Gerber embosstrack: http://www.mutoh.be/large-format-pr...-results/page.aspx/1344?sRequest=Ftdiunin.exe

For com port state, this is pretty typical:

Baud rate: 9600
Parity: NONE or N
Data bits: 8
Stop Bits: 1
Data Flow Control: Hardware

Best Regards,

from my research, the embosstrack is the mutoh xp. the images on google search are identical, where the ultima is far different. those settings are the settings i can confirm in signlab, but the embosstrack demands i specify the following additional settings:

NAME AVAILABLE SETTINGS
DTR ON, OFF, 20, 18
CTS ON, OFF
RTS ON, OFF, RTS

that's an excerpt from the manual, however when i attempt the manual configuration, DTR only allows ON, 20, or 18. i've done some minor study on serial port interfaces, and looked at the pin-out diagram in the manual, and somewhat understand the functions of these wires, but there is no account for them in the signlab configuration.

would it make a difference to attempt a usb-serial adapter?

thanks
connor

 

[jdsfw]

Not all serial cables are alike. Cutter makers often have custom pin-outs. Check with Mutoh or Gerber on whether you have the correct serial cable.

according to the previous owner, the parallel and serial adapter (also according to the manual) were included with the device. the parallel cable is brown, and the adapter is black, so perhaps that equipment was included with the original purchase, retained by him, and swapped for seemingly similar hardware?

connor

 

[Jim Doggett]

according to the previous owner, the parallel and serial adapter (also according to the manual) were included with the device. the parallel cable is brown, and the adapter is black, so perhaps that equipment was included with the original purchase, retained by him, and swapped for seemingly similar hardware?

connor

I really don't know. If you can connect parallel, you're golden; all parallels are the same. If the serial adapter converts a standard serial cable to Mutoh/Gerber's pin-out, then that should get you there, too, I'd think.

The rub with serial (why USB has displaced it) is that whether it's com 1 or com 2 is not immediately apparent. And the com settings need to match. But there's a manual somewhere (pdf online) or mutoh.be / gerberinc.com should have something helpful.

The only rub with USB is that the device needs to be installed on the computer, i.e. a Win (whatever) USB driver needs installing before the device is available and can be addressed by the cutting software.

Parallel is a virtual no-brainer, albeit somewhat slower. Also, parallel ports are a thing of the past.

Those are your choices, as best as I can think of.

Wish I could be more help ...

 

[Tony Teveris]

The Gerber pinout is a standard Serial cable, no jumpers in the hoods, etc.

I would use only one of the cables (parallel to parallel or the Serial 9 to 25 pin).

I can't offer any more help then that. Oh, it is a Mutoh

 

[jdsfw]

@Tony and Jim

despite the ongoing not working, you have both been extremely helpful. conclusive or not, i truly appreciate you all taking the time to help fight my battle.

i have the entire pdf manual from gsp printed, though it's very vague on some topics, indicating a prerequisite amount of serial communication understanding.

the host pc is also an older machine, equipped both with parallel and serial ports. the manual for the embosstrack says it supports only serial rs232 and centronix, and i know this machine is old, but i haven't seen a centronix port in over a decade. the parallel cable looks like it came with the machine, as it's the same dirty beige that electronics of that era were. the parallel port on the host pc shows up in device manager as an ECP printer port, though i'm confident if i boot into the BIOS i could dumb it down to a simple parallel functionality, but the manual says it doesn't support a parallel interface? when i plug parallel to parallel from plotter to PC, i get "online error I15 err onl frame port 1" which the manual describes as "a framing error occurred in an RS-232 port. check the communications setup. If the same error occurs when setup is correct, contact your gerber distributor."

another excerpt:

"the embosstrack plotter is classified as data terminal equipment (DTE). the plotter can have two interface ports and supports two types of interfaces:
*RS232 (standard)
*centronix parallel (optional)
the standard interface for an embosstrack plotter is RS-232. RS-232 can also be used as an optional (second) interface. An RS-232 cable is supplied with the plotter and is suitable for all standard PC connections."

my initial thought was "hey, parallel in, parallel out, party on" but it beeps an error immediately on plugin. i'm not sure if RS-232 is a form factor, signal format, or what. is it more or less likely to work with a single parallel/serial cable, or usb adapter?

thanks again!

connor

 

[jdsfw]

The Gerber pinout is a standard Serial cable, no jumpers in the hoods, etc.

I would use only one of the cables (parallel to parallel or the Serial 9 to 25 pin).

I can't offer any more help then that. Oh, it is a Mutoh

can you verify it's a mutoh xp? also, in the interface section of the manual, it states "you can use either a 9-pin to 25-pin (PC/AT) cable (supplied with the plotter) or a 25-pin to 25-pin (PC/XT) cable for your RS-232 connection."

does that mean i CAN plug into the parallel port on my PC? is a parallel-to-parallel port with a standard parallel-to-serial adapter the same as using a parallel to serial cable?

perhaps something like this?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=776085&CatId=5427

now that i look at the options, i'm not sure if the parallel cable he gave me is just a printer cable, a nullmodem cable, or what... what should it be?

thanks!

connor

 

[Tony Teveris]

I have no idea why the Gerber manual mentions parallel at all - we never used it with the GA / Omega software. I'm sure the Tech Writer does not know either, just copied it from a Mutoh manual. The Serial cable you pointed at looks correct and what I would try.
What was the prior user running for software to drive this? I'll find out about the Mutoh model.

 

[jdsfw]

i will order up the cable post haste. Unfortunately, i have no contact information for the man who sold me the cutter. he operates a sign shop with a name which i can't recall, over an hour's drive and in another county. i didn't pay close attention to his host pc, because i assumed it would be as easy to configure as my other plotter, which setup easily and quickly from any software i have.

the host pc i'm using is seriously dated, to the point where the original hard drive crashed yesterday while installing flexisign. i'll have to order that cable and pickup a replacement hard drive before i can do any further testing, though perhaps in the mean time i'll see if i can find a copy of the mutoh manual, and if i can install the plotter as a mutoh with any luck.

is the graphix advantage software deprecated entirely? is it possible to obtain and use?

thanks a million!

connor

 

[sportycliff]

For the amount of time and energy you're going through, I'd take a ride to the original owner with a cup of coffee and have a look and talk...

 

[jdsfw]

one more question, should i be purchasing a straight-through cable, or a null modem cable? i see several different types.

thanks

 

[Jim Doggett]

one more question, should i be purchasing a straight-through cable, or a null modem cable? i see several different types.

thanks

I think I'd pass on Radio Shack and buy a cable from a Mutoh cutter dealer. Whatever Mutoh's pin out is, it's real unlikely they've changed it or that Gerber would have had it changed when OEM'ing the cutter. Doing so would be a costly mainboard modification that would also reduce Mutoh's volume purchasing savings on the sub assembly. I really doubt that a private labeled product would alter the communications, since there's zero upside and only higher cost and added pain associated with inventorying two mainboards, which could be mixed up when making their own and Gerber's version. (nightmare potential for no gain)

So I cannot say for certain, but am about 99.999% confident a Mutoh serial cable gets you what you need.

Best,