Lettering on metal cups

[Craig Keller]

Other then just applying vinyl to cups anything to apply over it to make it more permanent? What's the best vinyl to use on metal cups?

 

[James Burke]

...make it more permanent?

We sandblast them.

JB

 

[Fbermudez]

Poxy over them my wife does tumblers

 

[VizualVoice]

cut a mask, sandblast, apply GunKote, bake. I've done literally thousands of tumblers over the last 5-6 years with this method and a few others. Really depends on what image you're wanting to put on them as to the best method to apply. Vinyl is only temporary.

 

[ChicagoGraphics]

Laser engraving or pad printing

 

[GB2]

cut a mask, sandblast, apply GunKote, bake. I've done literally thousands of tumblers over the last 5-6 years with this method and a few others. Really depends on what image you're wanting to put on them as to the best method to apply. Vinyl is only temporary.

Hmm....very, very interesting, I have a few questions if you don't mind. Do you even need the sand blasting or can you just apply to a clean surface? Do you clean the area with acetone after sand blasting or do you go right to the application? I imagine mask/laser etch/spray/bake would achieve the same result, wouldn't you think? Do you typically remove the mask prior to baking or do you bake it with the mask on? If you are doing multiple colors, do you repeat the process for each color? Does the GunKote come in aerosol cans or does it come in a regular can too? Is it always sprayed or can you brush it too?

 

[Craig Keller]

cut a mask, sandblast, apply GunKote, bake. I've done literally thousands of tumblers over the last 5-6 years with this method and a few others. Really depends on what image you're wanting to put on them as to the best method to apply. Vinyl is only temporary.

What size and type sandblaster is used?

 

[bob]

Dye-sub is the preferred method for printing on kitchenware. Virtually anything imaginable, especially cups and such, are available as dye-sub coated. The result is permanent and won't wear off.

 

[James Burke]

The result is permanent and won't wear off.

My dye-subbed mugs are fading after five or six years. I have to believe that's the case for stainless. Coatings of any kind will eventually break down.

Unpainted etched stainless is about as "permanent" as you can get, although it is susceptible to scratches like anything else. Etched powder coat is a close second.

JB

 

[binki]

My dye-subbed mugs are fading after five or six years. I have to believe that's the case for stainless. Coatings of any kind will eventually break down.

Unpainted etched stainless is about as "permanent" as you can get, although it is susceptible to scratches like anything else. Etched powder coat is a close second.

JB

Dye sub should not be used in a dish washer no matter what anyone says. It will otherwise hold up unless exposed to sunlight.

 

[VizualVoice]

Hmm....very, very interesting, I have a few questions if you don't mind. Do you even need the sand blasting or can you just apply to a clean surface? Do you clean the area with acetone after sand blasting or do you go right to the application? I imagine mask/laser etch/spray/bake would achieve the same result, wouldn't you think? Do you typically remove the mask prior to baking or do you bake it with the mask on? If you are doing multiple colors, do you repeat the process for each color? Does the GunKote come in aerosol cans or does it come in a regular can too? Is it always sprayed or can you brush it too?

Sorry I missed this! Hopefully in order of your questions:
•The surface needs a proper profile for adhesion, best accomplished by a light blasting with 120 grit AlOx or Garnet.
•I always clean/degrease before blasting to avoid potential contamination into my blast media or driving it into the surface of the substrate.
•You could theoretically laser on your logo into your mask as long as it's laser safe. That would probably be fairly useful for finer details.
•I use Avery high-heat mask and "it depends". If it's something simple that I'm unlikely to mess up the image when pulling, I'll go ahead and pull the stencil before baking (after a few minutes for the solvents to flash off) so it's just in the oven and done. If it's delicate and has fiddly bits, I'll flash bake it for 15 min in the oven, pull out to cool and remove the stencil without disturbing the image, then put back in for a final bake.
•It's like stenciling any other paint, if you have to selectively mask/peel then yes. Gunkote can be applied on top of itself, so if you wanted to do a gradient fade or something for example, no problem. It will also adhere to itself once cured, so you could lay your first color, flash it for 20 min, apply a second stencil and lay your second color, etc...
•Once upon a time I think Brownells or Midway had it in aerosol, but I've not ever used nor looked. It flows great through a cheap airbrush, and doesn't have any catalyst, so unused can pour right back into the bottle.
•Generally sprayed. It's super thin, so one would need to be very careful brushing. I've done some "special effect" type with brushes and plastic wrap, scotchbrite, etc, but nothing where it would be a smooth solid color.

I'd be happy to chat further on the subject if you want to know more. I've been in the coatings game for a lot longer than the printing game.

 

[VizualVoice]

What size and type sandblaster is used?

I have a cheap-o harbor freight blast cabinet with a few upgrades. For limited work, theirs will do just fine as long as you seal the seams with a tube of silicone before you start using it. You'll want some form of dust collection (shop vac with a HEPA filter is fine for a while). Also, it's a messy process that you won't want anywhere near your printers and stuff.
For proper profile, Blast media should be 100-120 grit Aluminum Oxide or Garnet. I use whichever my local supplier happens to have when I need to replace it. AlOx lasts longer but costs more than garnet, but cost seems to come out pretty much a wash over the lifespan of the media.

 

[rjssigns]

I have a cheap-o harbor freight blast cabinet with a few upgrades. For limited work, theirs will do just fine as long as you seal the seams with a tube of silicone before you start using it. You'll want some form of dust collection (shop vac with a HEPA filter is fine for a while). Also, it's a messy process that you won't want anywhere near your printers and stuff.
For proper profile, Blast media should be 100-120 grit Aluminum Oxide or Garnet. I use whichever my local supplier happens to have when I need to replace it. AlOx lasts longer but costs more than garnet, but cost seems to come out pretty much a wash over the lifespan of the media.

What about Cerakote?

 

[VizualVoice]

What about Cerakote?

Cerakote isn't food-safe. Technically KG isn't officially listed as such, but it is FDA compliant. If that's a concern for you and your customers. That being said, I know tons of folks that cerakote tumblers. One big advantage of KG over cerakote is that you don't have to catalyze it, so unused product just goes back into the bottle for next time resulting in much less waste. Also has a longer shelf life.

Having worked with both, my personal view is that KG is a great product with mediocre advertising (to be fair they rely mostly on large contracts). Cerakote is a GREAT marketing company with a decent product (as long as you don't mind significant color inconsistency from batch to batch and a much shorter shelf life). I used KG for years and only started spraying CK because my customers were asking for it by name and I got tired of explaining the difference (decal vs sticker, amiright? ). Spent a good bit of time and $ getting CK dialed in, but in the end unless the customer specifically requires it I push them to KG and they're always happy with the results, and I have a much easier to use product that provides just as good protection, and actually goes on thinner so less tolerance and fitment issues.

 

[rjssigns]

Cerakote isn't food-safe. Technically KG isn't officially listed as such, but it is FDA compliant. If that's a concern for you and your customers. That being said, I know tons of folks that cerakote tumblers. One big advantage of KG over cerakote is that you don't have to catalyze it, so unused product just goes back into the bottle for next time resulting in much less waste. Also has a longer shelf life.

Having worked with both, my personal view is that KG is a great product with mediocre advertising (to be fair they rely mostly on large contracts). Cerakote is a GREAT marketing company with a decent product (as long as you don't mind significant color inconsistency from batch to batch and a much shorter shelf life). I used KG for years and only started spraying CK because my customers were asking for it by name and I got tired of explaining the difference (decal vs sticker, amiright? ). Spent a good bit of time and $ getting CK dialed in, but in the end unless the customer specifically requires it I push them to KG and they're always happy with the results, and I have a much easier to use product that provides just as good protection, and actually goes on thinner so less tolerance and fitment issues.

Wow, thank you for the great information. I had never thought about the process before but now want to try. Blast cabinet is in the shop(HF unit with side door). It has BlackBlast in it so that would need to be switched out.(used for car parts) Airbrush should be in a cabinet...

 

[VizualVoice]

Wow, thank you for the great information. I had never thought about the process before but now want to try. Blast cabinet is in the shop(HF unit with side door). It has BlackBlast in it so that would need to be switched out.(used for car parts) Airbrush should be in a cabinet...

black blast or black beauty is coal slag and is generally too coarse to give the proper surface profile on a microscopic level. Think about when you sand something - if your "scratches" are too deep then when the paint levels out you have deep pools and shallower (thinner) spots on the surface unless you put it on too thick (which can affect durability). Same kind of concept if an oversimplified explanation. I'm more than happy to share any other info about it you might care to ask. I don't talk about my work on that side much because most of what I do is OEM contract work for other companies and can't disclose specifics of those jobs, so I only get to share the cool stuff that I do that walks in the door.

 

[rjssigns]

black blast or black beauty is coal slag and is generally too coarse to give the proper surface profile on a microscopic level. Think about when you sand something - if your "scratches" are too deep then when the paint levels out you have deep pools and shallower (thinner) spots on the surface unless you put it on too thick (which can affect durability). Same kind of concept if an oversimplified explanation. I'm more than happy to share any other info about it you might care to ask. I don't talk about my work on that side much because most of what I do is OEM contract work for other companies and can't disclose specifics of those jobs, so I only get to share the cool stuff that I do that walks in the door.

Yup, besides being too coarse the Black Blast was used on car parts. Brake calipers and brackets, etc... Way too filthy.
I'll PM you and we can discuss further.