I see Mosh is really the one that must be living in his mom's basement because he obvoiusly used his mom's leftover moose to take his avatar pic.:ROFLMAO: Trust me buddy there are printers for that amount out there and I will surely post it for all to drool over. But again the "pros" have not answered my question, only a couple have addressed it. So are any other manufacturers out there other than the 3 named run eco solvent inks. I understand there might be industry standards but that doesn't mean that other machines can not do the same.
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List of eco solvent printers anything other than roland,mimaki,mutoh?
- Thread starter maynemag
- Start date
B Snyder
New Member
high impact
New Member
awesome! ;-)
sfr table hockey
New Member
This might be your best option to look at. It is solvent and 54" and can cut as well. You can use a USB to serial cable to run them, they can print nice quality, but you will also need a good rip to run it. That again is big $$. Print speed is slow but not the end of the world. To look at anything that is not solvent will cost you 3 to 4 times for the material to print on and then you are limited to what you can do with out laminate. With solvent you can do banners, some outdoor stuff and loads of inside without lamination. The learning curve is long with any printer but with the above the cost of printheads are way cheaper than a newer unit.
Next option would be to get just the printer in an older unit FJ 42 or 52 and convert it to solvent. If you can do the work it can be done for under $1000 so if you can get one for $1500 (which is possible) then you would have a start.
jasonx
New Member
If you just want to learn to wrap why don't you use solid coloured wrap vinyls provided by most manufacturers now?
You'll learn to wrap and you can produce some basic designs.
They'll last longer then printed wraps also and you won't need a printer. A cutter fits your budget for this at the moment.
Once you build up your install skill you should have the money for a printer and laminator anyways.
You'll learn to wrap and you can produce some basic designs.
They'll last longer then printed wraps also and you won't need a printer. A cutter fits your budget for this at the moment.
Once you build up your install skill you should have the money for a printer and laminator anyways.
There are some used solvent printers on Craigslist that I've seen as low as $3500 and they work. They might need printheads and some other stuff, but they are out there. Don't listen to these guys that spent 20k+ and theyre all bitter now. Craigslist is your friend. You would be shocked to see what I've picked up on there. For instance, 2 months ago I found an HP Designjet 9000s in Los Angeles. Long story short, I got it for $4500 and it was in EXCELLENT shape. You just have to be in the right place at the right time. Keep the faith, don't let these bozos bring you down...
jasonx
New Member
Question do you laminate your wraps?
To answer your original question - "List of eco solvent printers anything other than roland,mimaki,mutoh?" - look here http://www.flaar.org/
Drool away.
Drool away.
grafixemporium
New Member
I don't know what's more ridiculous... the moron who started this thread or the fact that there's 2 pages of people trying to convince him he's a moron.
Jeff South Florida
New Member
I couldn't agree with GE more. This has become a great forum of nothing. On that note, I think we are missing the big picture here. He says there are lots of printers in that price range and he can proove it. Maybe he should be selling these printers. I can't find one under $15k worth it weight for wraps. Oh did I mention that a rip that will allow tiling starts around $2000.
I can't beleive I just posted in this thred on this subject.
I can't beleive I just posted in this thred on this subject.
houseofgrafix
none
I <3 Mosh
nohomo
nohomo
CheapVehicleWrap
New Member
if you're going to do 30" wraps, you're certainly going to need what's called a take up system. Now we've seen them as low as $200, but I think the Mutoh is closer to $2500+. That'll leave you with $500 extra which you can buy a set of ink cartridges with. Be careful with the ink though, they have expiration dates usually about a year or so. I'm not sure what really happens after the expiration, but I suspect the smart chip will report the cartridge is empty when it's still full at which point I've seen instructions on how to take those expensive babys apart and you can actually paint on the vinyl with a standard watercolor brush. It takes a bit of time to mix the colors correctly, especially if you're tying to hit a pantone but it can be done. There's quite a bit of ink in them suckers to experiment.
astro8
New Member
Yes, of course you can do it for under $3,000 and make it work, prerequisite is that you know what you're doing and understand large format printers and how to get and keep them going, but doesn't sound like you have a clue. That's not a slight on you, just the way it is. It'll be well used and hard to work with compared to what you're competing against.
I just got rid of a JV2 180(6') Resolve machine, a 1350 laminator and an Ioline super88 for for under AU$2000 (US$1750?).
Man, I never want to see that stuff again...EVER, EVER!!
Printed, laminated and cut thousands and thousands of sqm on that stuff and every metre was hard work.
Equipment I have now is heaven to work with.
Have to add though, if I was given that stuff to start a wrap business, I'd rather slit my throat..ahahahah.....!!!
I just got rid of a JV2 180(6') Resolve machine, a 1350 laminator and an Ioline super88 for for under AU$2000 (US$1750?).
Man, I never want to see that stuff again...EVER, EVER!!
Printed, laminated and cut thousands and thousands of sqm on that stuff and every metre was hard work.
Equipment I have now is heaven to work with.
Have to add though, if I was given that stuff to start a wrap business, I'd rather slit my throat..ahahahah.....!!!
Kentucky Wraps
Kentucky Wraps
Answer to your question. There is a conversion kit (starting at $1,200) that will convert many older or NON solvent printers to a 'solvent" printer.
That's one avenue you may want to check out. (google solvent printer conversion)
As far as solvent printers "other than" those 3 you listed...yes. There are several. Phaeton/Challenger/Infiniti , SEIKO, YH-JV338, XAAR, etc. There are many housing's named various things...but mostly are Chinese "printers" using one of a handfull of "Print Heads" (ie. Seiko heads). There are many things to consider...rip program, compatibility of parts, software, shipping is usually expensive.
By the time it's all said and done, You are thousands over the intial price of the "printer". You now have to order parts from China($hipping), have no tech support, no "you tube" tutorials and NO BODY IN THIS FORUM THAT CAN HELP YOU WITH YOUR PRINTER PROBLEMS.
There are off-brand laminator too that are more affordable. (ie. Daige quickmount) You can have your choice probably hundreds of used ones from folks in these forums that went and got a different one as soon as they could.
You can't obviously get a UV cured printer for wrapping due to the non-conforming properties of the cured ink surface.
Installing ANY prints without vinyl overlaminate makes for a VERY unpleasant installation &/or removal. Even liquid laminate (cheaper) is hard to work with.
In your initial question you did ask about "other printers" but then on to give reason WHY you wanted them. I answered the 1st question. The other stuff in your question has been answered in Many colorful ways by the other forum users some seasoned professionals & some just applying what they've read by those afore mentioned professionals.
Bottom line________ the printer you seek will not be coming to this continent for your "budget".
Learning to wrap is great. Free "hands on" lessons taught by yourself is also great. Expecting to find a printer that provides you with the Printed Vinyl that is workeable & large enough to make sense for learing on with a budget that costs less than an actual wrap itself...is PURE LUNACY!
Don't you think if ANY of these folks in here found something like you are wanting...it would spread like wildfire in here of all places?
That's one avenue you may want to check out. (google solvent printer conversion)
As far as solvent printers "other than" those 3 you listed...yes. There are several. Phaeton/Challenger/Infiniti , SEIKO, YH-JV338, XAAR, etc. There are many housing's named various things...but mostly are Chinese "printers" using one of a handfull of "Print Heads" (ie. Seiko heads). There are many things to consider...rip program, compatibility of parts, software, shipping is usually expensive.
By the time it's all said and done, You are thousands over the intial price of the "printer". You now have to order parts from China($hipping), have no tech support, no "you tube" tutorials and NO BODY IN THIS FORUM THAT CAN HELP YOU WITH YOUR PRINTER PROBLEMS.
There are off-brand laminator too that are more affordable. (ie. Daige quickmount) You can have your choice probably hundreds of used ones from folks in these forums that went and got a different one as soon as they could.
You can't obviously get a UV cured printer for wrapping due to the non-conforming properties of the cured ink surface.
Installing ANY prints without vinyl overlaminate makes for a VERY unpleasant installation &/or removal. Even liquid laminate (cheaper) is hard to work with.
In your initial question you did ask about "other printers" but then on to give reason WHY you wanted them. I answered the 1st question. The other stuff in your question has been answered in Many colorful ways by the other forum users some seasoned professionals & some just applying what they've read by those afore mentioned professionals.
Bottom line________ the printer you seek will not be coming to this continent for your "budget".
Learning to wrap is great. Free "hands on" lessons taught by yourself is also great. Expecting to find a printer that provides you with the Printed Vinyl that is workeable & large enough to make sense for learing on with a budget that costs less than an actual wrap itself...is PURE LUNACY!
Don't you think if ANY of these folks in here found something like you are wanting...it would spread like wildfire in here of all places?
maynemag,
We used to primarally be an offset printing company, but the offset printing industry is slowly declining and has been for years (recently it was listed as one of the top 10 ENDANGERED industries. So I had a buddy I had been doing business with for years, he owned a screen print shop and offered to sell it to me (owner financed). Seemed to be the property thing to do, timeing was right as I was nearing completion on our new building and we were going to have extra space. I jumped on it, seemed like making dollars per item we print instead of pennies (like in offset printing) would be terrific.
Now I regret ever doing so. I soon realized that screen printing is the bottom of the barrel in the graphics industry. Sucky work, sucky customers, sucky profit. But after moving to our new building, we had lots of customers asking for signage. We purchased one of those great Master Cutters off ebay, and added signage to our product line. That was OK, I wasted a heck of a lot of time and vinyl learning to do it, but I really needed the additional revenue. After about three years of using the cheapo cutter, I decided to purchase (business lease) an additional cutter (professional quality this time) and a Muto printer and a laminator ($23K for the combo deal). I then invested several thousand more into additional substrates and materials.
This time our expansion went much better, I love doing the digital thing, much better than screen or offset printing - in profit and in cleanlyness.
Straight up, it is wise to expand your business, and you will like the sign industry much better than screen printing.
But, all these "pros" are right about the money. It is going to be an absoulte nightmare without a $25,000 or more investment. I leased our equipment, first and last months lease up front as a deposit, and 58 more payments of $530/mth. We are not big time sign guys like most of the guys on this forum, but our sign equipment pays for it's monthly payment every couple or three days.
This morning a preacher walked into our shop, placed an order for two (identical text only) banners, we spent less than an hour total customer service and art and production time for $200. Shortly after, I spent a hour and 15 minutes discoussing the details of a screen printing job with another customer, ultimately he said he couldn't afford our price for the 20 shirt order, and left.
Simple banners and signs are much more profitable than screen printing, and generally you have a higher quality customer and more satisfying customer encounter than with screen printing.
Assuming that you can prove to a leasing company that you already have enough positive cash flow that you can make the payments, assuming you have decent credit (dont have to be perfect credit, just decent, like a 640 score or higher), you can likely use the $3k as a deposit to get the lease, and you can likely negotiate some supplies and software as a throughin in the deal.
So the skinny is:
1) they are right, trying to start a sign shop, even in a small way, on just $3k investment in equipment is going to be a nightmare.
2) they are wrong, $3k can get you in the sign industry, with some additional financing, and you, as a graphics professional, can learn the skills to be sucessful.
3) wraps are very very very difficult, we have done a couple of partial wraps, but I no longer solicit for that type of business. To be profitable you really would need to hire someone with a lot of experiance. Even with my two partial wrap jobs, I got an experianced freelancer to help us out. forget wraps for now (maybe later after you have more experiance), and concentrate on lightweight signage and banners.
We used to primarally be an offset printing company, but the offset printing industry is slowly declining and has been for years (recently it was listed as one of the top 10 ENDANGERED industries. So I had a buddy I had been doing business with for years, he owned a screen print shop and offered to sell it to me (owner financed). Seemed to be the property thing to do, timeing was right as I was nearing completion on our new building and we were going to have extra space. I jumped on it, seemed like making dollars per item we print instead of pennies (like in offset printing) would be terrific.
Now I regret ever doing so. I soon realized that screen printing is the bottom of the barrel in the graphics industry. Sucky work, sucky customers, sucky profit. But after moving to our new building, we had lots of customers asking for signage. We purchased one of those great Master Cutters off ebay, and added signage to our product line. That was OK, I wasted a heck of a lot of time and vinyl learning to do it, but I really needed the additional revenue. After about three years of using the cheapo cutter, I decided to purchase (business lease) an additional cutter (professional quality this time) and a Muto printer and a laminator ($23K for the combo deal). I then invested several thousand more into additional substrates and materials.
This time our expansion went much better, I love doing the digital thing, much better than screen or offset printing - in profit and in cleanlyness.
Straight up, it is wise to expand your business, and you will like the sign industry much better than screen printing.
But, all these "pros" are right about the money. It is going to be an absoulte nightmare without a $25,000 or more investment. I leased our equipment, first and last months lease up front as a deposit, and 58 more payments of $530/mth. We are not big time sign guys like most of the guys on this forum, but our sign equipment pays for it's monthly payment every couple or three days.
This morning a preacher walked into our shop, placed an order for two (identical text only) banners, we spent less than an hour total customer service and art and production time for $200. Shortly after, I spent a hour and 15 minutes discoussing the details of a screen printing job with another customer, ultimately he said he couldn't afford our price for the 20 shirt order, and left.
Simple banners and signs are much more profitable than screen printing, and generally you have a higher quality customer and more satisfying customer encounter than with screen printing.
Assuming that you can prove to a leasing company that you already have enough positive cash flow that you can make the payments, assuming you have decent credit (dont have to be perfect credit, just decent, like a 640 score or higher), you can likely use the $3k as a deposit to get the lease, and you can likely negotiate some supplies and software as a throughin in the deal.
So the skinny is:
1) they are right, trying to start a sign shop, even in a small way, on just $3k investment in equipment is going to be a nightmare.
2) they are wrong, $3k can get you in the sign industry, with some additional financing, and you, as a graphics professional, can learn the skills to be sucessful.
3) wraps are very very very difficult, we have done a couple of partial wraps, but I no longer solicit for that type of business. To be profitable you really would need to hire someone with a lot of experiance. Even with my two partial wrap jobs, I got an experianced freelancer to help us out. forget wraps for now (maybe later after you have more experiance), and concentrate on lightweight signage and banners.