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Logo Concept
- Thread starter Pinfinity
- Start date
moe_szys1ak
New Member
I do not have any opinions of your design that others haven't already stated, but I would like to comment on logo design in general and steps I think you should take (if you haven't already) that may give you a different outlook on your logo and what can be done with it.
Too often people start the design process on the computer and start adding the fancy effects straight away. The designer then gets stuck on that design, and starts to design "around" it, trying to make all additional elements fit that theme in an effort to justify all the work done adding the effects. It's sort of like buying all the furniture for your new apartment before you've seen the room sizes and then signing the lease because you need a place for your new stuff, not because the furniture fits well or it's a good place. I'm guilty of it myself from time to time.
Most good logos, however, start out with good old pencil and paper. Many black and white silhouettes are sketched until finally you pick two or three that stand out. Then you bring them into the computer and convert them to vector. After playing around and perfecting the vector silhouettes, choose the one you like best. Only then should you start adding the colors and effects.
What does this method accomplish? Well, first of all, it allows you to have a 1-color version of your logo that will be suitable for screen printing, pad printing, laser engraving, vinyl cutting, etc. You should always keep in mind the uses you want to put your logo to. Having only a full color design will limit those uses.
Secondly (and IMHO most importantly), if you're not satisfied with the silhouette of your logo, you will never be satisfied with the effects-laden version you will eventually build to.
So, what's my point in all this? Convert your logo to 1 color (if you don't already have it) and judge that instead of this. Are you happy with it? Does it work without all the bells and whistles? Is it "exciting", "fast", "solid", or any other emotional buzzword you were aiming for while designing it? If not, then you might want consider starting on some new designs.
Too often people start the design process on the computer and start adding the fancy effects straight away. The designer then gets stuck on that design, and starts to design "around" it, trying to make all additional elements fit that theme in an effort to justify all the work done adding the effects. It's sort of like buying all the furniture for your new apartment before you've seen the room sizes and then signing the lease because you need a place for your new stuff, not because the furniture fits well or it's a good place. I'm guilty of it myself from time to time.
Most good logos, however, start out with good old pencil and paper. Many black and white silhouettes are sketched until finally you pick two or three that stand out. Then you bring them into the computer and convert them to vector. After playing around and perfecting the vector silhouettes, choose the one you like best. Only then should you start adding the colors and effects.
What does this method accomplish? Well, first of all, it allows you to have a 1-color version of your logo that will be suitable for screen printing, pad printing, laser engraving, vinyl cutting, etc. You should always keep in mind the uses you want to put your logo to. Having only a full color design will limit those uses.
Secondly (and IMHO most importantly), if you're not satisfied with the silhouette of your logo, you will never be satisfied with the effects-laden version you will eventually build to.
So, what's my point in all this? Convert your logo to 1 color (if you don't already have it) and judge that instead of this. Are you happy with it? Does it work without all the bells and whistles? Is it "exciting", "fast", "solid", or any other emotional buzzword you were aiming for while designing it? If not, then you might want consider starting on some new designs.
SignManiac
New Member
All excellent suggestions above. Question, what is your primary line of work? You do outstanding dimensional signs, is that your niche? I find that there's sometimes a fine line between doing signs and trying to sell yourself as a graphics person. It's almost like they are two separate professions, although it's possible to be both and do them both well.
Figure out who you really are, sign guy, or ad agency? More money in the agency stuff if you can market yourself that way. I unfortunately am destined to be a sign guy although I wish I wasn't. In fact, I try not to mention or focus on signs when dealing with new clients. I prefer to just go by Skywatch and let them think of me more as a graphics and advertising professional here to help promote their company with great graphic solutions. I'd rather be their complete, one stop, advertising solution and pick up all of the communication needs. Signs, cards, ad layout, vehicles, the whole shebang.
So play up the Infinity by all means, and maybe diminish the importance of signs and graphics. Hope that makes sense.
Figure out who you really are, sign guy, or ad agency? More money in the agency stuff if you can market yourself that way. I unfortunately am destined to be a sign guy although I wish I wasn't. In fact, I try not to mention or focus on signs when dealing with new clients. I prefer to just go by Skywatch and let them think of me more as a graphics and advertising professional here to help promote their company with great graphic solutions. I'd rather be their complete, one stop, advertising solution and pick up all of the communication needs. Signs, cards, ad layout, vehicles, the whole shebang.
So play up the Infinity by all means, and maybe diminish the importance of signs and graphics. Hope that makes sense.
Pinfinity
New Member
Sign Maniac...let me start off by saying I apoligize for copping an attitude yesterday. I really understand the value of others perspective if they are professional and that you are! I don't know anyone here but I'm getting to know the players that offer a lot of knoweledge. I find myself in the same situation as you are currently ...Sign guy wanting to break away! I truly love the sign business, but it seems to me a lot of people entering the trade have very little learning experience thus tarnising the trades value. It's tough to wear all the hats when your the one stop shop...accounting for all the unpaid hours that should be billed. I think you know what I mean. I was in my own business for 25 plus years and burned out. I had some really great clients...so here I am again seeing what the future will bring..once it's in your blood it's hard to change.
SignManiac
New Member
Pin no need to apologize for anything. I sometimes forget that not everyone knows everyone around here. Half here are very serious and then there's the rest that are crazy like myself. Levity keeps me sane.
I think you nailed it, the sign business isn't the respected profession it was once considered. It's become a mere commodity with little value placed on what we do. Oh sure, there are still some awesome clients out there to be had, who really do appreciate what we can do for them, but they're getting harder and harder to come by.
I'm burned out too but not sure I can change who I am after all these years. Still I can dream of being a surf bum spending all my days at the beach checking out the babes and wishing I was thirty years younger, haha!
You have good design skills and if I were you, I'd try not to pigeon hole yourself into just being a sign guy. Market your design skills and you'll get a lot farther. Blow a lot of smoke up the clients asses and sell yourself as a "graphics professional", and I don't mean one of these MicroSoft publisher types all running around today claiming to be graphic artist.
If it's not too late, consider tweaking your company name to something like "Infinity Media" or "Infinity Design Concepts" or maybe work "Studio" into your name somehow. Brand yourself as a design firm who just happens to specialize in high end custom signage. Focus on the good work, don't be afraid to say no to the Calvin pissing on Ford stickers. They will waste time that could be better spent on the premium work.
I realize you're just now starting back up in the biz and you will have to take on jobs you would rather not to pay the bills, but work on finding the good stuff. It's out there, make it your primary goal.
I think you nailed it, the sign business isn't the respected profession it was once considered. It's become a mere commodity with little value placed on what we do. Oh sure, there are still some awesome clients out there to be had, who really do appreciate what we can do for them, but they're getting harder and harder to come by.
I'm burned out too but not sure I can change who I am after all these years. Still I can dream of being a surf bum spending all my days at the beach checking out the babes and wishing I was thirty years younger, haha!
You have good design skills and if I were you, I'd try not to pigeon hole yourself into just being a sign guy. Market your design skills and you'll get a lot farther. Blow a lot of smoke up the clients asses and sell yourself as a "graphics professional", and I don't mean one of these MicroSoft publisher types all running around today claiming to be graphic artist.
If it's not too late, consider tweaking your company name to something like "Infinity Media" or "Infinity Design Concepts" or maybe work "Studio" into your name somehow. Brand yourself as a design firm who just happens to specialize in high end custom signage. Focus on the good work, don't be afraid to say no to the Calvin pissing on Ford stickers. They will waste time that could be better spent on the premium work.
I realize you're just now starting back up in the biz and you will have to take on jobs you would rather not to pay the bills, but work on finding the good stuff. It's out there, make it your primary goal.
Pinfinity
New Member
Getting to know who you really are tells me how much depth you have as a person. I am blown away by your comments and insight into an industry in which I think you have been in as long as I have. I'm a little lost being away from the sign trade for a while but confident in my abilities. Thank you for opening my eyes and and you have ignited my thoughts on moving forward. If you wouldn't mind, I would like to add you to my friends list. Oh, and by the way, don't stop joking I am so like you, but new to the forum.
Dennis
Dennis
econolinesigns
New Member
While not the same, the concept made me think of the logo from Infinion Raceway.
Dave Drane
New Member
This is the best advice that anyone here can take!!
Excellant response!moe_szys1ak
New Member
Thanks for the kudos! I figured from the tone of the conversation previously that you weren't necessarily looking for reassurance that your logo was perfect, but rather you recognized that something was missing and you couldn't put your finger on what it was, and wanted another set of eyes.
In my experience, using the method I described, along with other idea generating techniques like lists and word associations, usually (but not always) helps eliminate these questions early on. The idea doesn't get to the computer, where I'll be spending most of my time, unless I'm sure it's at least a direction I can see possibilites.
One of the reasons using pencil and paper to quickly pump out ideas works so well is that it is basically a question of odds. Surely, most will be pretty bad, but when you do so many, just as surely there will be one or two that stand out as not terrible. Every quick sketch you add to the list increases your odds of something not terrible showing up. To me, most good designers aren't good designers because they have great ideas. They're good designers because they are good at pumping out ALL their ideas and then eliminating the bad ones before they spend too much time on them.
All that said, I should probably take my own advice more often! :Big Laugh Lately I've been rushing and eliminating steps in my process in order to get stuff done quickly and it's only taken me longer!
In my experience, using the method I described, along with other idea generating techniques like lists and word associations, usually (but not always) helps eliminate these questions early on. The idea doesn't get to the computer, where I'll be spending most of my time, unless I'm sure it's at least a direction I can see possibilites.
One of the reasons using pencil and paper to quickly pump out ideas works so well is that it is basically a question of odds. Surely, most will be pretty bad, but when you do so many, just as surely there will be one or two that stand out as not terrible. Every quick sketch you add to the list increases your odds of something not terrible showing up. To me, most good designers aren't good designers because they have great ideas. They're good designers because they are good at pumping out ALL their ideas and then eliminating the bad ones before they spend too much time on them.
All that said, I should probably take my own advice more often! :Big Laugh Lately I've been rushing and eliminating steps in my process in order to get stuff done quickly and it's only taken me longer!
Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
After seeing your other work, my gut was right, you have some design skills, you just seem to be playing it safe, or your look is bogged down by something.
I don't mind showing you my card/logo. I have shown it before. Most of my work is larger sign and identity projects. I only design, some directly with a client, most is freelance for sign shops, architects, graphic designers and specialty retail companies. I did not want a card with all the bells and whistles, I like the feel of paper... not process shiny stuff, but a thick paper card. My logo and look has a retro feel. I am also showing my basic presentation sheet with the logo.
My feeling about pencil drawings and black and white is pretty much the same as everyone else... one thing I have changed my mind on through the years is the idea that the logo should look just as good in black and white as it does in color. While I agree there might be a need for a b/w logo, the weakest form of reproduction should NEVER, EVER dictate the branding/identity of a company. So if a full color logo will make the logo look bad, then maybe it should be a one color logo....
As you can tell, mine are solid color, the Kingpin Design worked better shifted in front of a solid shape. I also play around with it....
If you have not seen these sites before, they are worth checking out....
http://www.graphic-exchange.com/home.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dailypoetics/sets/72057594104389710/
I don't mind showing you my card/logo. I have shown it before. Most of my work is larger sign and identity projects. I only design, some directly with a client, most is freelance for sign shops, architects, graphic designers and specialty retail companies. I did not want a card with all the bells and whistles, I like the feel of paper... not process shiny stuff, but a thick paper card. My logo and look has a retro feel. I am also showing my basic presentation sheet with the logo.
My feeling about pencil drawings and black and white is pretty much the same as everyone else... one thing I have changed my mind on through the years is the idea that the logo should look just as good in black and white as it does in color. While I agree there might be a need for a b/w logo, the weakest form of reproduction should NEVER, EVER dictate the branding/identity of a company. So if a full color logo will make the logo look bad, then maybe it should be a one color logo....
As you can tell, mine are solid color, the Kingpin Design worked better shifted in front of a solid shape. I also play around with it....
If you have not seen these sites before, they are worth checking out....
http://www.graphic-exchange.com/home.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dailypoetics/sets/72057594104389710/
Attachments
Pinfinity
New Member
Dave,Moe & Rick... your so right! I should have thought of designing my identity on paper first before jumping on the computer. I believe in my haste of getting into the business again the computer makes things happen fast! No excuses though, I really appreciate your opening my eyes, and I'm taking your professional wisdom to heart and I will take this approach. Rick, your work shown above is very unique and outstanding! Thanks for sharing with me.
