Looked at a potential shop today

[Mosh]

is there anything you don't do?

You know, I am just pointing out is is better to own your own place. I started out in high school and while my friends were out spending money on sterios and mag wheels for their cars I was buying a Gerber Sprint and making money. I got a chance at a 40 acre farm for pennies on the dollars in 19991 and turned that into 1000+ arce farm. My point is save your money so you can have money. Just spreading my expericences, that is all.
Paying rent ONLY makes the landowner money, no way to argue that.

 

[john1]

you need land for building something...

 

[allamericantrade]

Land, permitts,zoning, etc. Just cant throw up a structure anywhere and if you are fortunate enough to be in a location you could your probrably too far out from town to have any real market share in the industry.

 

[ForgeInc]

Mosh, you sure have everything figured out, eh?

 

[jfiscus]

I may be overlooking something, but how does a shop operate without a garage to do installation in? I know all the retail strip shops do it somehow - but 90%+ of my business here is vehicle graphics... does everyone else sell just "take-out" signage?

 

[Typestries]

I like mosh economics, actually. Let's coin a new term, "moshonomics"

In all seriousness, mosh makes some very valid points. While they may not apply to the letter to all of us in all cases, as a general way of life, reducing debt and increasing cash is a good thing.

 

[OldPaint]

john go for the 20 x 40 space and dont get all caught up in the "what ifs" people are laying out there. if it works, then MAYBE you can be like mosh)))))))
i put up a 24' X 30' X 16' tall metal building. wife and i built it. its a 140 MPH wind load structurer, insulated and concrete floor. building cost in 2005 was $8400.00. concrete was another $2000. permits and electrical was additional. i did all the wiring also. there was no plumbing, but i will put a sink and a drain in this summer.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

I may be overlooking something, but how does a shop operate without a garage to do installation in? I know all the retail strip shops do it somehow - but 90%+ of my business here is vehicle graphics... does everyone else sell just "take-out" signage?

You install outside ... not hard to do. If you're doing a vehicle wrap you need a garage (partial or full) but rain and snow not with standing ... outside is fine. I mean crap and a half ... what happens if you have to go on site to install some graphics ... same conditions. Just sucks when it's cold. I ran for 2 years doing nothing but on site installs on the graphics jobs I sold ... all outside.

Or you can be like the local fast signs and signs now ... they hand you your graphics and tell you to F*** OFF!

 

[SD&F]

John,
If you can't afford to build, then move forward with your idea. What you need to do is have an ironclad agreement signed and notorized with everything clearly spelled out.
You should also include this as part of your rental agreement with the landlord, should this guy not work out you are only responsible for your space. He should also have a clause that should the other guy leave you have several months to look for another spot or keep you there at the adjusted rent/utilities. Be sure if you are left holding the space that you come out on the top, with no lawyer fess, rental fees, late fees....etc.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

I personally think you should do it ... if your shop is getting too small for the filling (not unlike a womans pants when she eats too many hohos) then go for it, just make sure everything is in writing ... makes it easy to deal with that way. Building a shop is great (Oh and OLD PAINT ... great shop) but not really ideal for everyone.

 

[2B]

John,
If you can't afford to build, then move forward with your idea. What you need to do is have an ironclad agreement signed and notarized with everything clearly spelled out.
You should also include this as part of your rental agreement with the landlord, should this guy not work out you are only responsible for your space. He should also have a clause that should the other guy leave you have several months to look for another spot or keep you there at the adjusted rent/utilities. Be sure if you are left holding the space that you come out on the top, with no lawyer fess, rental fees, late fees....etc.

+1 very true! since you are subleasing you have to make sure if the other shop fails you are not effected and the landlord understands this in writing

 

[Gino]

I don't stay sober for one.... Seriously, I got one of these put up last fall. If you put concrete in it and insulated it they would make a great shop. Check out the link I put.

http://www.wickbuildings.com/buildings/

40x40 all done would be around 100K or less...cheaper than rent any day. Can't ague that.. .

Alright, so mushputz has one redeeming quality............ :ROFLMAO:


Correct, don't let any of us persuade you to do or not to do anything you have your eyes and heart set upon. We're only giving, in most cases, real life experiences and passing them on.


There was a thread on here within the last year or so, where someone actually did exactly what you are planning to do for a year or two. The other fellow wasn't even in a related field of business. After both of them working very well together, did the plan start to fall apart. If I remember right, the other guy was actually being taught by this sign guy and never realized he was training his competition. After the other guy knew enough, he booted the other guy and there was nothing in the plan to stop him from taking over the other guy's sign business.

We're only telling you real life experiences. Once things are set in motion..... you can't look back and say.... if I only would've known. At least this way you can prepare in case something goes wrong.

Why don't you put the lease in your name and let him sublet from you ?? You'd have far more control of any situation that might arise, down the road.

 

[john1]

How do i go about doing all this guys? The in writing part that is.

 

[2B]

How do i go about doing all this guys? The in writing part that is.

Have to get a lawyer, either take the lease agreement that is looking to be used and have them look it over making sure you are covered or have them create a lease agreement from the start ensuring you are covered

 

[john1]

Any idea on how much this may cost?

 

[allamericantrade]

Any idea on how much this may cost?

Short term or long term?

you can get a quote from a lawyer and maybe spend 150-1500 depending on the lawyer now or spend 1500-15000 in lawyer fees later if something don't work out. Of course these are guestimates and mean nothing other than making a point. I don't think you can afford to not afford a lawyer in this endeavor

 

[john1]

I'm leaning on towards pulling out of this idea now, I feel i will never get out of working from home. (apartment)
Thanks for the information everyone.

 

[Gino]

If you have an attorney, he'll probably charge you an hour or two's worth of his time. $175 to $400 an hour. If you have an attorney, you'll already know his rates. Searching for one.... probably more, if he/she's any good.

I'm lucky. Two of my customers... and they get a lot of signs, cause they're also into real estate.... will look at things and not charge me and I give them a discount on signs. Both of my lawyer clients have turned into friends, along with an old friend of mine who is an excellent attorney, but has retired. We used to work on old MG's and Healey's together back in the early 70's.

This doesn't have to do with this thread, but in a way it does....

Anyone in business who is solidly serious about being in business should already have an attorney if not on retainer, at least on their speed-dial. There are so many legal issues that arise from rent, bad debts, sham deals to countless other things and to have to always go and search out an attorney, can become quite expensive. Find a good one and keep him in your back pocket. There are so many reasons to have a good one on your side, that knows you. I can't tell you how many times I have used mine.

My old friend, Chris, rarely ever charged me at all and never asked for anything in return. I knew him since I was about 23 and we're still good friends. He saved my bacon many-a-times.

 

[allamericantrade]

I reccomend taking some time to think. It's an exciting and scary change to upgrade and like buying a car we want it now when in the moment. This could be an excellent oppertunity or the worse mistake you can possibly make... Thats Life. It couldn't hurt going and talking to a lawyer, just don't jump with out looking. You came in excited with out thinking of any consequences and every one just wanted to expess to slow down and cover your bases. If you decide to go for it just make sure you won't get screwed and think of it from all aspects. It could possibly be an excellent move for you. Who can really say? Bottom line is when starting this "partnership" you need to know the ins and outs. Hope for the best, Plan for the worse.

 

[Billct2]

You should keep looking at the idea, especiallynow that you have ahd the sh*t scared out of with all these cautionary posts. Just be realistic and get in all in writing. When I have had to do something like this I wrote up the agreement in plain english, had my lawyer review and edit it (lot cheaper and more understandable than him writing it), and then sign & notarize.