Looking for best UV urethane for outdoor cedar

[EddieHollywood]

Looking for a very fast drying UV spar urethane or other covering to put on small cedar signs for outdoor use.

Thicker the better but it needs to dry fast with in few hours ready to give to the customer.

I good thick shinny look would be nice.

What products would you recommend for this.
Spray or paint on.

Right now i am using Helmsman Spar Urethane spray it drays fast but i would like something thicker looking and something that cost less.

Thanks

 

[Joe Crumley]

Eddy,

I topcoat all my natural wood signs with Sikens. It's the Rolls Royce of clear topcoats. The product is made for log houses. However it takes a day or two to set up.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

 

[rubo]

I take my stuff to a body shop next door - automotive clear - whatever it is - dries pretty quick, looks great. Don't have to deal with fumes, compressor, airgun and all...

 

[EddieHollywood]

Anything other then Sikens i need something that will day very fast so i can give the sign to the customer.

For now i am not doing a gloss look coat and using a natural cedar stain that drys in a few min and is set in 3 to 4 hours ready to give to customer.
It takes a second coat wet on wet so i can put on two coats with in 15 min.
It seals the wood protecting the wood for water and other things. you can hold the wood under the water and no water will soke into the wood rated for 3 to 6 years outside.
It out preforms Sikens in many ways and has no voc.

 

[visual800]

Some things cannot be rushed. Clears need to set up and harden and that takes time. If the customer cannot wait a couple days they need to move on OR you as the signguy need to not do that job. PLEASE do not go to Lowes and buy that cheap clears over the counter you will regret it.

We use high solid urethanes in our shop also

 

[Joe Crumley]

I agree that clear coats need time to mature.

Here's my thoughts:

The harder a clear coat dries, the more like it's crack and peal on woods. So far fast drying clear coats don't do well on any kind of wood for outdoor use.

Sculpt Nouveau has a new clear that you might try it's knows as "Ever Clear"
The other clear that I know works well is "Acqua Clear Lock UV" which is water based. It's tough stuff and might fill your needs best.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

 

[EddieHollywood]

What about
General Finishes Exterior-450-outdoor-finish
http://www.generalfinishes.com/prof...shes/exterior-450-outdoor-finish#.URXr_PJNAdV

I have been reading and looking up as much as i can on this and the Exterior-450 has a lot of good reviews people saying it last for a good many years outdoor.

Water based and drys fast for recoat in a hour for a 2 coat system?

I will look into the others listed.

The signs are all small cedar signs the home, cabin, tourist type of signs they need to pick them up later in the day or the next morning.

We need to produce 5 to 10 or more of them a day they are low cost $50 to $75 signs.

I want to offer the best finish i can for our signs in the limited time we have to work with them and work with safe to use products that have easy clean up..

Right now the plan is to CNC each sign then color the letters and trim, Then drop the sign into a bath of cedar color seal once wood sealer this is used on decks and log cabins and anything outside it has very good ratings and reviews i like this stuff a lot. It sinks into the wood more then Sikens creating a bond with the wood stopping water from ever entering the wood to do any damage.
For outdoor signs that is all i will be doing unless the customer wants the gloss look then i may add for a extra cost the General Finishes Exterior-450 unless i find something better.

For indoor signs i will still do the bath with the sealer and then use PolyWhey Furniture finish in a gloss or simi-gloss
http://www.vermontnaturalcoatings.com/our-products/polywhey-natural-furniture-finish/

I have read nothing but good reviews on this. Two hour dry time super low VOCs also water based.

For the CNC routing i will be trying Joe's rubber cement glue and transfer paper trick to see how well that works for us.

 

[Eric H]

We do the while you wait cedar signs also we just leave them natural. The cedar weathers fine on it's own. If the customers ask we usually recommend CWF it's more of an oil finish. It may dry quick enough for you check it out.We use it on some of the other styles of signs we do. The problem with the surface finishes is when they break down and start cracking and peeling it makes the sign tough to refinish. With the oil type finishes they can be sanded and cleaned up easier. Generally the varnish type finishes need more than two coats to really protect the sign for any length of time. We just try to avoid clear coats when possible.

 

[EddieHollywood]

Ok what is CWF?

(The problem with the surface finishes is when they break down and start cracking and peeling)

This is why i like the seal once it sinks in and is not a surface prep and has nothing that will ever crack it bonds as part of the wood inside the wood.

One reason i want to be able to offer a gloss coat is one other place here that dose this in town uses a gloss coat of some kind on all their signs and people see that and like the glossy look and ask about it from us.

Are you gloss coating your indoor version signs?

Maybe i will try a oil finish over the sealant if that gives it a shine look.

I am using the cedar tint in the sealer so the wood stays a nice cedar color and dose not turn gray.
I am also testing using the black tint of the sealer in place of using black ink or paint for the letters and trim.

So far it is looking good i painted it on and had to much build up so i just got in a airbrush i will try this week.
It drys with in 30 min and sands off as good as ink giving the same look.
100% no VOC non toxic you can put it on indoors it has no smell.
Easy water clean up
Can be applied down to 32 in the winter.
Can cost as low as 26 cents for a 1x2 sign full coverage that's why i will drop the wood in a bath of it.

 

[Gino]

Unless I missed something on your steps in producing your signs...... sealing wood is the very first step one does. Not the last thing as it seems you've mentioned.

After carving, sandblasting, CNC'ing or whatever it is you do to wood, you then seal it, providing we are talking about raw wood. Remember, sealant is something you do to wood to keep any top coat of anything from seeping down into the fibers and grains of raw woods. Otherwise, it could take 10 coats of paint to get a desired finish on some woods.
After the sealant has thoroughly sunk in and dried, you can start to add paint. If you are going to stain wood, you do that step before sealing. After all paint and stains are dried, you then clearcoat, but most lettering paints don't require any clearcoat. To get this shine you're talking about, it's evidently just for aesthetics, so inform your customers they can have it with or without. With it will require at least one extra day. All the varnishes and clear coats we use take at least 24 to 48 hours to cure for handling purposes.

In over 40 years of woodworking, I've yet to find a real water based clear that works for exterior signs.

Eddie..... you appear to be looking for someone to give you a green light on taking short cuts. If these are indeed $50 & $75 signs, I would say you can use anything glossy that you like. As for durability and effectiveness, only your slow drying bases are gonna do that.

 

[Eric H]

CWF is the brand name but I think it stands for clear wood finish. I wouldn't put it over sealer it needs to soak in, I think it would end up a oily mess. the CWF is a good finish but it is not glossy.We do everything from freehand router cut signs to carved and guilded signs. We really try to steer people away from clear coated wood signs, and when we do them it's 4+ coats of marine spar varnish. These are usually for boats and people understand the upkeep on this type of finish. I haven't really looked for the type of finish your looking for but I don't know of anything that you could double coat within a few hours and have a good glossy finish.

 

[EddieHollywood]

Hi Geno

I am not trying to make short cuts other then i have to get the signs out fast just like others doing this kind of low cost signs for this business plan.

to reply
(sealing wood is the very first step one does)
I am using a sealant that also includes the tint stain so i am not doing this first as the sanding i need to do removes off the tint if i applied this first so i CNC the sign then ink or stain in the letters then sand off the extra over spray and then seal/stain the wood. The sealer i am using soaks into the wood up to around 5/8 a inch and bonds with the wood creating a water proof seal for years the tint dose not sink in as much so it can be sanded of but the clear sealent is still deeper in the wood protecting it. This is dry in less then 4 hours after 2 coats with in 15 min.

Unless I missed something on your steps in producing your signs...... sealing wood is the very first step one does. Not the last thing as it seems you've mentioned.

After carving, sandblasting, CNC'ing or whatever it is you do to wood, you then seal it, providing we are talking about raw wood. Remember, sealant is something you do to wood to keep any top coat of anything from seeping down into the fibers and grains of raw woods. Otherwise, it could take 10 coats of paint to get a desired finish on some woods.
After the sealant has thoroughly sunk in and dried, you can start to add paint. If you are going to stain wood, you do that step before sealing. After all paint and stains are dried, you then clearcoat, but most lettering paints don't require any clearcoat. To get this shine you're talking about, it's evidently just for aesthetics, so inform your customers they can have it with or without. With it will require at least one extra day. All the varnishes and clear coats we use take at least 24 to 48 hours to cure for handling purposes.

In over 40 years of woodworking, I've yet to find a real water based clear that works for exterior signs.

Eddie..... you appear to be looking for someone to give you a green light on taking short cuts. If these are indeed $50 & $75 signs, I would say you can use anything glossy that you like. As for durability and effectiveness, only your slow drying bases are gonna do that.