Looking for some insight!

[eomedia]

There's nothing at all wrong with being a broker in this business. Just keep it above board and we'll all be copacetic.

As for the rest of your confession..... none of it's needed. You conduct yourself however you wish and do your thing. Come here, ask questions, get good insight on things lotsa other people don't have a clue............... but don't for a second think we'll give you much help if you're gonna try to use this information to put some legitimate sign shop out of business.

...

Anyway, you probably have everything worked out in your head, so I invite you to really take a hard look at your game plan and re-visit how you intend to be the go-between for the transit companies and the sign shops you are aligning yourself with to do this. ​

Ah, I see the disconnect. I'm brokering the advertising space, not the signs. The signs are a tool, not where I'm looking to make money. I want to have a little knowledge to be able to be able to explain the process to clients on either end and to make sure my sign contractors are recommending the most appropriate (cost and performance) materials. More business for the sign shops, not less.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[Gino]

Ah, I see the disconnect. I'm brokering the advertising space, not the signs. The signs are a tool, not where I'm looking to make money. I want to have a little knowledge to be able to be able to explain the process to clients on either end and to make sure my sign contractors are recommending the most appropriate (cost and performance) materials. More business for the sign shops, not less.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Okay, I guess this is sort of what I asked in the other thread.

You're just using a play on words. You figure if you call things by something other than their real name, you can justify undermining the industry by selling space..... advertising space. That's a salesman and he works for commissions to the highest or lowest bidder depending on whose side you're on at the moment.

When you're selling this space for the customer, you're telling them, you'll use [and this is where you'll use your newly found knowledge to dazzle your prospective customer with your wisdom] by giving them a crock of sh!t that you know you aren't gonna fulfill. Cause, now... if you make the sale, you're gonna go to the cheapest guy in town and again [this is where you'll use your newly found knowledge to ream your prospective sub-contractor with your wisdom] out of profit.

Once that gets old, you'll keep moving around until you burn all your bridges and you'll either try doing it yourself or start selling tanning beds.

More business for the sign shops..... but do they want your kind of business ?? Probably, because in this overall economy, there are a lot of guys/gals out there looking for work and possibly might lower their prices cause you dangle that carrot in front of them promising them more work if they work with you. Problem with that is.... as you get more work, you will get greedier and if the shops don't continue to lower their prices, you'll go to another until you can't make ends meet.
​

I can tell you for a fact, jack this is what will happen unless you are already in a high position and can direct work already yours, to whomever is willing to work with you on your conditions, but then that's no longer 'brokering', but kick-backs. Whole nother story.


And thank you for telling your story.............

 

[SD&F]

Howdie from North Georgia

 

[Stuckup]

Thanks for asking.

I've been looking through the forum posts to answer some questions on my own and spare the flames

First I would what some suggestions would be for shorter-term transit-grade vinyl? Busmark seems to come up a lot, and there seem to be several grades of 3m in that spectrum. I also had some reps throw out Mactac vinyl as comparative to 3m but lesser price, but I believe that was just in general. I've looked through the posts and there seem to be a few thrown around but I didn't quite catch which was best for what scenario (i.e. under 3 months, under 6months, under a year).

Second I have read a few horror stories about vinyl wraps leaving ghost imprints after removal or damaging paint jobs. Seems to be mostly after longer periods of adhesion but I did read a couple where short term wraps wound up ruining the paint job of the vehicle. I would like to learn a little more on that, as not damaging clients vehicles is paramount.

Third I was looking around for cheaper/creative alternatives to vinyl wraps - i.e. I've seen people using 3m's Dual Lock in conjunction with standard banners to achieve the same effect. Also, in speaking with some sales reps they had a few ideas for printing standard non-adhesive banners and using adhesive strips for mounting on windows (storefront, non-vehicle).

And, of course, anything you guys think should be put out there.

And there are other things. I've gone through a lot of the forum but obviously there are tons and tons of posts to sift through.

Thanks for the help.

OK, you can do all above.

 

[HulkSmash]

eomedia,

all transit companies already have hard contracts with printers, who can print cheaper, then you can buy the raw material for. You might want to reconsider your targets.

 

[eomedia]

Okay, I guess this is sort of what I asked in the other thread.

You're just using a play on words. You figure if you call things by something other than their real name, you can justify undermining the industry by selling space..... advertising space. That's a salesman and he works for commissions to the highest or lowest bidder depending on whose side you're on at the moment.

When you're selling this space for the customer, you're telling them, you'll use [and this is where you'll use your newly found knowledge to dazzle your prospective customer with your wisdom] by giving them a crock of sh!t that you know you aren't gonna fulfill. Cause, now... if you make the sale, you're gonna go to the cheapest guy in town and again [this is where you'll use your newly found knowledge to ream your prospective sub-contractor with your wisdom] out of profit.

Once that gets old, you'll keep moving around until you burn all your bridges and you'll either try doing it yourself or start selling tanning beds.

More business for the sign shops..... but do they want your kind of business ?? Probably, because in this overall economy, there are a lot of guys/gals out there looking for work and possibly might lower their prices cause you dangle that carrot in front of them promising them more work if they work with you. Problem with that is.... as you get more work, you will get greedier and if the shops don't continue to lower their prices, you'll go to another until you can't make ends meet.
​

I can tell you for a fact, jack this is what will happen unless you are already in a high position and can direct work already yours, to whomever is willing to work with you on your conditions, but then that's no longer 'brokering', but kick-backs. Whole nother story.


And thank you for telling your story.............

I'm sensing a little bitterness here. You've made so many predictions based on nothing but assumptions on your part I might as well just wrap it up right now.

Bottom line, you can believe what you like - as it stands in my area the transit agencies I have spoken with have one or two suppliers and set rates. Nobody has been out lowballing anyone or hiring anybody in a garage. Don't see why I would be any different other than you seem to want to pigeonhole me into whatever bad experiences you've had. That's unfortunate.

Perhaps next you can pin some as-of-yet uncommitted murders on me.

 

[Sign Up Graphics]

Sign Up Graphics

Welcome from Skokie, IL

 

[eomedia]

Welcome from Skokie, IL

Thanks

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Thanks

Welcome from Dayton.

What city are you in?

 

[Mosh]

Brokers SUCK!!! In fact I was charged with assault from one. Not just a "Mosh" story this "broker" gave me several bad checks than then was bad mouthing me to steal work, and then coming to me to get the signs....Karma for him as he is now 64 years old and I remind him every time I see him that he is old and will be gone soon.....I still have $500+ of checks from him that have never cleared. I keep them for the fun of it so I can bring them up to customers....Worst part is he such and aurgant a$$

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Brokers SUCK!!!

Some brokers may suck, but some sign shops may suck too. There are people who suck in any industry.

At the end of the day the vast majority of outdoor advertising purchased around the world is purchased by brokers and agencies.

There is nothing wrong with what the OP is trying to do at all. He's no different that a salesperson selling billboard space or radio time or 30 second spots on TV, I really doubt people lash out at those guys because they're "brokers" or not real sign people. He's selling advertising, and guess what? Advertising sells. He's also not the first person to try a venture like this, it's not uncommon for companies who want/need to sell advertising space on their fleets to use a third party company to actually handle the sales/production/installation of it. I don't get why the hostility here.

 

[eomedia]

Some brokers may suck, but some sign shops may suck too. There are people who suck in any industry.

At the end of the day the vast majority of outdoor advertising purchased around the world is purchased by brokers and agencies.

There is nothing wrong with what the OP is trying to do at all. He's no different that a salesperson selling billboard space or radio time or 30 second spots on TV, I really doubt people lash out at those guys because they're "brokers" or not real sign people. He's selling advertising, and guess what? Advertising sells. He's also not the first person to try a venture like this, it's not uncommon for companies who want/need to sell advertising space on their fleets to use a third party company to actually handle the sales/production/installation of it. I don't get why the hostility here.

THANK YOU. Speaking with local shops here it doesn't seem to be uncommon, you would've thought I said I wanted to turn coats made of kitten pelts or something. I'm glad some of these guys don't work in the construction industry.

 

[ProWraps]

in all fairness. this guy aint a broker.

he's a fledgling marketing agency that will be contacting us to execute his ad buys if he can be successful....

im all for it. the more this guy is selling stuff and contracting me/us/you to wrap it, the better.

do your thing bro. if you need someone in Nor*Cal to produce and install your spots, we would love to be your guys.

why a fledgling marketing agency is on a sign makers forum is obvious by his posts. he wants to know what his contractors are doing somewhat so he doesnt get the run around.

i dunno, i just see it as opportunity for my biz. i guess im over the raz the new guy/suspected broker routine.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

in all fairness. this guy aint a broker.

he's a fledgling marketing agency that will be contacting us to execute his ad buys if he can be successful....

im all for it. the more this guy is selling stuff and contracting me/us/you to wrap it, the better.

do your thing bro. if you need someone in Nor*Cal to produce and install your spots, we would love to be your guys.

why a fledgling marketing agency is on a sign makers forum is obvious by his posts. he wants to know what his contractors are doing somewhat so he doesnt get the run around.

i dunno, i just see it as opportunity for my biz. i guess im over the raz the new guy/suspected broker routine.

Exactly.

 

[Circleville Signs]

I hear where Gino is coming from, but in my experience, not all "brokers" are bad guys. As a matter of fact, a couple of my largest customers are brokers. I've had bad experiences with brokers as well, but i've had bad experiences with plumbers, electritions, etc.

Where are you at in Ohio? I'd love to talk with you about seeing if we could work together.

 

[Gino]

Don't get me wrong. NOT all brokers are bad. Just the vast majority of them.

We have some brokers which we do lotsa work for over the course of a year. I make money/they make money..... and it's all peachy.

However, these brokers, generally know what they're doing and not trying to squeeze every last penny out of you. They understand business and how it all works. They aren’t in advance telling us they are trying to avoid flaming or problems. They understand and respect the playing field and play by the rules.

emoe is trying to be cute and use terms like sensing bitterness and making baseless accusations of the same caliber in order to feel justified here. This is Fred’s place and whomever he wants here can stay as Fred sees fit. I don’t care who is here, but I do care when someone comes in and doesn’t share their whole story and the truth behind it, until asked point blank. I’m not a dentist and I don’t like pulling teeth, but I guess I could become one in a few days if I hung around ‘Dentists 101’ ………….

As for bad experiences, that’s 100% what I’m doing. I’m hardly pigeonholing him. In fact, I’m trying to do just the opposite, but some people/pigeons enjoy using terms to make others go away. I’m giving first hand knowledge of my many run-ins with lotsa bad brokers. I don’t hide that fact and never had.

There’s no problem with someone trying to start up a business in any line of work and not have the skills or knowledge to do the line of work you want to do. However, if you want to break into business, why or how do you expect to learn your business on-line ??

It just amazes me at the number of people from all walks of life….. who do everything by Google and expect all the others to just bow down to them in awe at their expectation to come into anything and learn this stuff in a few weeks with a few dazzling or key buzz words.
​

 

[eomedia]

I hear where Gino is coming from, but in my experience, not all "brokers" are bad guys. As a matter of fact, a couple of my largest customers are brokers. I've had bad experiences with brokers as well, but i've had bad experiences with plumbers, electritions, etc.

Where are you at in Ohio? I'd love to talk with you about seeing if we could work together.

Thanks. Northeast. Judging from your name you're Central?

 

[eomedia]

why a fledgling marketing agency is on a sign makers forum is obvious by his posts. he wants to know what his contractors are doing somewhat so he doesnt get the run around..

Bing! I would just like be able to know a little of the process so I'm not relying 100% on what contractors are telling me and hope I'm not getting jerked around. Kind of like reading up a little on car repair so I will have an idea if the shop is jerking me around or not. Doesn't mean I expect to walk out the door after reading a book and start repairing engines myself. Actually, I would read a book on this topic if they were easily accessible. I've checked around, there doesn't seem to be much written on the topic.