Suggestions Looking to purchase first routing table for the shop, suggestions?

[Print1]

to solve the upcut issue, drill a hole through the Reg marks, mirror your image and cut reversed, it will pull the ink toward the the back giving you a far better cut. using our t00502 bit on acm or acrylic will yield a near polished finish ready for flame and out the door...

Yeah, that's the one thing I didn't much consider when I got the camera system. Here is a big fat for instance. We use belin upcut bits, which work great on aluminum up to .125" in a single pass, as well as ACM, but when cutting with the camera on a print, the upcut bit pulls the edges of the vinyl up, requiring some cleanup. After I did this the first time, I said H*LL NO, this should be a finished product, so I set the machine up to read the marks, but then to also cut the marks out (The marks for this can be set to different things, for instance this run was .25" black circles.) Once it cut the circles, I slapped pieces of black vinyl over the holes, flipped the panel, flipped the artwork so it would match, then reran the camera scan program with the actual shape instead this time. It worked great, no lifting on the vinyl in the least! Though I did find out the vaccuum is strong enough to pull the panel into the table, and any chips left behind before the panel was loaded will be nicely pressed into the vinyl/sheet itself. Also, anywhere the cut line traversed a line previously cut into the table did not actually cut all the way through the laminate. The lam was pulled into the trough by the vacuum while the bit cut the dibond and the print material. Long story short, cutting prints out of dibond should be done with a straight or downcut bit.

 

[SignEST]

Yeah that was my second attempt, before swapping for the downcut bit. Only issue is the vacuum pushing chips into the panel with enough force to dimple and mar the vinyl. If this wasn't being used for aluminum with mist primarily, I could just mill down the table flat and it should work just fine, though simply going for the downcut bit whenever it is something like ACM seems to be the simpler and quicker way to go.

I think the downcut might not work that good for Acrylic as you said yourself. We use downcuts for sintra/pvc as well. Works really well.

 

[Andrew Heiner]

Yeah, that's the one thing I didn't much consider when I got the camera system. Here is a big fat for instance. We use belin upcut bits, which work great on aluminum up to .125" in a single pass, as well as ACM, but when cutting with the camera on a print, the upcut bit pulls the edges of the vinyl up, requiring some cleanup. After I did this the first time, I said H*LL NO, this should be a finished product, so I set the machine up to read the marks, but then to also cut the marks out (The marks for this can be set to different things, for instance this run was .25" black circles.) Once it cut the circles, I slapped pieces of black vinyl over the holes, flipped the panel, flipped the artwork so it would match, then reran the camera scan program with the actual shape instead this time. It worked great, no lifting on the vinyl in the least! Though I did find out the vaccuum is strong enough to pull the panel into the table, and any chips left behind before the panel was loaded will be nicely pressed into the vinyl/sheet itself. Also, anywhere the cut line traversed a line previously cut into the table did not actually cut all the way through the laminate. The lam was pulled into the trough by the vacuum while the bit cut the dibond and the print material. Long story short, cutting prints out of dibond should be done with a straight or downcut bit.

Try a O-flute bit. Cut most things now with a O-flute.

 

[Print1]

Yeah, that's the one thing I didn't much consider when I got the camera system. Here is a big fat for instance. We use belin upcut bits, which work great on aluminum up to .125" in a single pass, as well as ACM, but when cutting with the camera on a print, the upcut bit pulls the edges of the vinyl up, requiring some cleanup. After I did this the first time, I said H*LL NO, this should be a finished product, so I set the machine up to read the marks, but then to also cut the marks out (The marks for this can be set to different things, for instance this run was .25" black circles.) Once it cut the circles, I slapped pieces of black vinyl over the holes, flipped the panel, flipped the artwork so it would match, then reran the camera scan program with the actual shape instead this time. It worked great, no lifting on the vinyl in the least! Though I did find out the vaccuum is strong enough to pull the panel into the table, and any chips left behind before the panel was loaded will be nicely pressed into the vinyl/sheet itself. Also, anywhere the cut line traversed a line previously cut into the table did not actually cut all the way through the laminate. The lam was pulled into the trough by the vacuum while the bit cut the dibond and the print material. Long story short, cutting prints out of dibond should be done with a straight or downcut bit.

you can also use a downcut bit to negate that peeling of the substrate, depending on the type of substrate sometimes you can use an upcut such as direct to surface printing which will not gum up the bits.

 

[ADVANCED DISPLAY]

We test our tools with a MultiCam 1R with a drag knife and oscillating knife. This is a great router and knife system. We also have a MultiCam 3000. This is older and does not have a knife system. Both have been amazing with no problems. Might be worth looking into. I wish you best of luck.

Josh

So the knife system on the Apex 1, how's that work? is that for lighter things or what? I'm torn now, overthinking it really. We don't currently do much dimensional signage, we mostly do vinyl graphics banners direct print stuff, so on the one hand a digital cutter would be something that would make our workflow insanely quicker, but on the other a CNC would help expedite bigger projects and I could offer better options for my customers. I've thought myself into a corner here and I'm really getting pissed lol

 

[johnnysigns]

I don't have a multicam, but I do have an Axyz with vision and while it does knife cut well, it's definitely not in the same speed range as a dedicated knife system with a router - say like the Colex, Zund or Kongsberg varieties. Those types of tables are going to read and process knife based sheets/rolls much faster. My Axyz will max out at 1000 inches per minute where the other brands will move faster than that. Again, I don't own a multicam, but my guess it will be similar to our Axyz in that regard. I kind of refer to it as a swiss army knife because you can process rigid and lighter based sheets.

 

[ADVANCED DISPLAY]

Yea, I guess I just need to decide whether to invest in our current capabilities and make them broader and easier/quicker or in new capabilities and processes…… multicam or esko? Multicam’s cilero series cutters look good but the kongsberg line looks impressive

 

[jfiscus]

We have a Vision CNC Router. It does a good job and is pretty reliable. The software that comes with it is not for 3D/contoured routing, but you can upgrade to it.
There is a little bit of a learning curve to using a CNC, but overall it is not too different than a plotter and most of the errors are on the art/setup end.

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We are constantly coming up with new ideas and products we can make with it.
Attached is one of my favorites so far, 100" x 90" multi-layered dimensional lighted sign using Polymetal, PVC, Acrylic, and LED lighting.

 

[ADVANCED DISPLAY]

The question you must ask is "Do I need a router, or a digital cutting table?"

A true router is more industrial and will typically process heavier materials and metals with ease. While some do offer electronic eye for contour cuts, they aren't quite as refined as what you would find in a Zund, Esko or Summa digital cutting table. That said, the digital cutting tables typically won't excel at heavy duty materials and metals, but they are more friendly for sign shop needs when you need to cut down not only typical sheet goods, but roll materials like banners, posters, decals, etc.

Well when you're right you're right! Now I'm deadlocked on what to do: multicam apex1 CNC would expand my business and add new capabilities we don't currently have. But a digital cutter (kongsberg or the like) would streamline our current capabilities IMMENSELY! rolls of banners and digital printed decal material w/overlam: what would take us a day and a half to cut would get done in half a day or so...... I'm leaning towards the ladder now, and that brings a new dilemma: Esko/kongsberg, Multicam's cilero, or any other brands you'd recommend?