Low Tech Color Management

[deegrafix]

I may get slammed for this one by the experts here but here goes....

Since I wear all the hats in my shop I haven't had time to study ICC profiles and color management in depth so have a work-around that gets me through my workflow.

I have printed Pantone charts from files on each kind of material I use, using the best overall ICC profile chosen from my RIP. I call it "My Roland's Interpretation of Pantone Colors". I then find the best match for the client's pantone color on my printed chart and use it in Adobe to design or tweak the file. I have them in both single pass and double pass prints.

It may not work for a bigger shop but I do it all myself. I finally found a great paper sized PMS chart and am working on a loose leaf type folder for both reference and sales with my colors, that I know I can acheive with my printer.

Does anyone else do this?

 

[Baz]

I also wear all the hats in my shop. And i also do the same. I have pre-printed charts that i refer to when i have to match specific colors. I usually don't bother when i am doing my own signs and layouts. Usually colors come out pretty close to what i used on screen but when getting cutomer artwork, i print off a small sample to check out the colors and adjust them to my charts so they match what i see on the monitor.

It's a pretty fool proof system

 

[deegrafix]

It's nice to know that it's a valid method.

 

[bob]

It's nice to know that it's a valid method.

Perfectly valid and a whole hell of a lot faster and cheaper than running off in a frenzy of profiling. It has the added bonus of irritating the various color Nazis adrift in these waters.

 

[Malkin]

Similar here, though I use the Roland color library and my own custom spot colors to pick from.

 

[Rooster]

Perfectly valid and a whole hell of a lot faster and cheaper than running off in a frenzy of profiling. It has the added bonus of irritating the various color Nazis adrift in these waters.

It is a perfectly valid method. You do waste more ink and media printing your charts than I do to make a custom profile. Plus a ton of time going through your clients files and rebuilding them to print with your bastardized specs.

And that's just to get an accurate spot colour. It does nothing to ensure you're getting smooth, accurate tonal transitions in your photos. Or a balanced gray scale.

I may be a colour "nazi", but I take the same file you're farting around with and I'm trimming it down by the time you're finished "adjusting" perfectly good artwork.

 

[Baz]

It is a perfectly valid method. You do waste more ink and media printing your charts than I do to make a custom profile. You're kidding right? I don't consider spending my cash on a 54"x32" piece of vinyl that i keep for a year or two wasted.

Plus a ton of time going through your clients files and rebuilding them to print with your bastardized specs. Spending a ton of time going through old files? no sir .. i adjust a file once a job comes in .. if i have to reprint an older job .. then i can just click off a couple of colours that were already chosen from the last job and am ready to go. Hardly a ton of time.
And that's just to get an accurate spot colour. It does nothing to ensure you're getting smooth, accurate tonal transitions in your photos. Or a balanced gray scale.I print for construction companies and sub trades ... they dont give a rats *** about accurate tonal transitions in their photos. Greyscale on the other hand .. calibrated systems have just as much trouble with them as people who go off of colors charts .. just look at the number of threads concerning greyscale.

I may be a colour "nazi", but I take the same file you're farting around with and I'm trimming it down by the time you're finished "adjusting" perfectly good artwork. Now your talking out of your arse. My method can be just as fast if not faster. Selecting a couple of colours off a pre printed chart does not take that long

Anyways .. Your answer was perfect for a Nazi :ROFLMAO:

 

[Locals Find!]

The last shop I worked in did the same thing. Never seemed to have a problem, and the owner of that shop actually worked for Roland for years as a sales rep & tech prior to opening his own shop. So I would figure if its good enough for someone like that. Should be good enough for everyone else right?

 

[Rooster]

Anyways .. Your answer was perfect for a Nazi :ROFLMAO:

So your defense is that your clients don't care about quality? Why bother trying to match colours at all?

Mine care, and they pay me more for it.

You'll need to explain to me how I'm wasting my time when I can spend less time on each job and charge more for it, because I fail to see where that's the wrong approach.

 

[bob]

So your defense is that your clients don't care about quality? Why bother trying to match colours at all?

Mine care, and they pay me more for it.

You'll need to explain to me how I'm wasting my time when I can spend less time on each job and charge more for it, because I fail to see where that's the wrong approach.

QED, it irritates them...

Here's the thing sport, most everyone not obsessed over color, including myself, manages to eke out a living doing original work, not attempting to reproduce someone else's stuff. That being the case, I get to specify what color goes where. I don't have to follow someone else's road map. My lack of interest in whether some color or another that I chose to use matches someone else's arbitrary standard approaches total.

On those rare occasions, and they're extremely rare, when I have to actually match some Pantone color or another I just belly up to my trusty Pantone chart, which probably cost me 12 cents and 10 minutes of time over a lustrum ago, whip out my official Pantone color reference, and find the color on the chart that best matches.

No one has ever, as in ever, complained that the result wasn't right. Now then you may offer your own rationalizations why this is the case but it really doesn't matter to anyone but yourself.

The reason doing it with a color chart is at least equal and probably superior to the methods of the obsessive color Nazis: It holds many more things constant than the uber-profiled. Many. Thus it produces far more predictable results on virtually any media with far less effort and very little hand-wringing.

What comes out of the printer is the truth, not what might be made to appear on a monitor. If you were to actually comprehend that bit of wisdom we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[Bly]

I've worked both ways and custom profiling gets more jobs out quicker and with less waste. But hey whatever works for you.

 

[Baz]

You're reading to much into what i am saying. Ease back a little.

So your defense is that your clients don't care about quality? Sure they do .. But with some simple color adjustments in photoshop and a half decent rip program, you will turn out pretty decent quality photo prints. Why bother trying to match colours at all? Why not .. going off of printed color charts will also yield nice colors that match what the client's needs are.

Mine care, and they pay me more for it. Good for you .. I like to think i charge a decent amount also for the quality of my work. I'm not cheap by any means.

You'll need to explain to me how I'm wasting my time when I can spend less time on each job and charge more for it, because I fail to see where that's the wrong approach. I never said it was the wrong aproach. I am just saying there is nothing wrong with working off of printed color charts. And a shop can produce really nice work even without calibration software.

I will say that if i had a bigger shop and would be relying on multiple employees for production that i would invest in a system that would be consistent no matter who was using the machines. But since i am a small shop with one or two employees. I am the one who allways does the printing, using the low cost method of printed charts works just as well as a shop who is set up with color management software.

I am confident that i can put my portfolio next to any shop and be just as good if not better than many out there.

Your method is good .. So is mine.

 

[eye4clr]

The "nazis" respond the way they do because they see processes based on ignorance and lack of tools being purported as superior to a properly setup and executed color managed workflow. This is not a snobish, may way is better than yours comment, simply factual.

Your print the patches and work backward approach is totally valid, well suited to the tools you have at hand, and effective for most circumstances. But in no way is it more efficient and cost effective than proper color management.

I do see loads of greyscale problem threads but none from someone who's doing their color management correctly.

 

[paul luszcz]

I would like to become one of these color fanatics myself. The hunt and peck method is entirely unpredictable. One file may take five minutes to prep, the next might be five hours.

Would one of you please tell me how you do the custom profile and what you need?

 

[scuba_steve2699]

To make custom profiles you will need profile creation software and a spectrophotometer such as the iOne from Xrite - www.xrite.com - they have a package deal with the equipment and software for around $1800

 

[P Wagner]

I would like to become one of these color fanatics myself. The hunt and peck method is entirely unpredictable. One file may take five minutes to prep, the next might be five hours.

Could not have said it better.

With that said, to each their own...

 

[Terremoto]

Here's the thing sport, most everyone not obsessed over color, including myself, manages to eke out a living doing original work, not attempting to reproduce someone else's stuff.

That's all your myopic approach to colour management will ever allow you to do is "eke" out a living. Good luck with your hillbilly colour management sport.

Dan

 

[signswi]

I encourage people to not learn proper profiling it leaves a bigger market for the rest of us. Please continue to skim off all the clients that wouldn't make it past the velvet rope anyway, you're really doing us all a favor.



Or, for a non-sarcastic response (awww) we've quadrupled our yearly numbers since instituting proper color management over a printed swatch visual match system that had been in place before. The clients are much bigger and more professional (less local walk-in, more national and multinational corp) and the jobs are longer runs with higher profit. Most jobs preflight and color matching is no longer a source of stress and bounced jobs due to color having fallen to nearly zero.

 

[eye4clr]

Or, for a non-sarcastic response (awww) we've quadrupled our yearly numbers since instituting proper color management over a printed swatch visual match system that had been in place before. The clients are much bigger and more professional (less local walk-in, more national and multinational corp) and the jobs are longer runs with higher profit. Most jobs preflight and color matching is no longer a source of stress and bounced jobs due to color having fallen to nearly zero.

But that's all such a waste of time and money. Stop it, you're destroying the perception that I've got this color thing sorted with my printed charts.

 

[rjssigns]

Been wanting to take the plunge into color management. But I am afraid that the system I buy will not be universally compatible. Or worse yet be obsolete in a couple months. We run Versaworks and Ergosoft right now, but may switch to Caldera.
Looked at the iOne Extreme to do monitors, printers cameras etc... still not sure if it is a smart purchase.
Maybe the Colour Nazi would like to chime in?

 

[rjssigns]

Well Pat we put out the bait. Have to wait and see who bites.
Sad part of my situation is I trained in college for color management, profiling, then controlling the calibrated pieces of the workflow. Got the theory and practice just need the tools. So cash is a little tight.
Seems I blew all my money on school. (stupid college)