Magnum Magnetics - Magnets "Bubbling"

[Phenex]

Hi All,


Having problems with some magnets I made for a customer. I have attached pictures, blocking out the customer name to protect the innocent.

Some info about the magnets (set of 3 magnets)

· Magnum Magnetics – 30 mils

· Full bleed print

· Printed on Arlon DPF 4500MLX

· Laminated using ClearShield

After printing, I let the vinyl sit for 2 days before laminating and applying to the magnets. I informed the customer they needed to make sure the surface was clean prior to applying the magnets. They would also need to remove the magnets periodically and clean both the magnets (front & back) and the area they were applied to the vehicle.

The customer applied the magnets to the sides and rear of their truck. The color of the truck was black.

A couple of months later, I get the call the magnets are failing, they are “bubbling” up. I assure them I will make it right and make another set. When I get the magnets back they look like the attached pictures. Since I know the customer washes his truck regularly at the car wash (at least once a week), I asked if they removed the magnets first. I was assured, they indeed removed them prior to washing the truck. I contacted Magnum and they did not have an idea what could have caused the problem. Also, they indicated there were no known manufacturing issues.

I then chalked it up to bad luck as I have made quite a few sets of magnets and never had this failure with any other customer.

Now fast forward another couple of months and the second set is also failing the same way. The only difference between the two sets is I used Arlon 3420 for the lamination on the second set.

As a side note, I made a magnet with a bad print using this design (didn’t use rich black) at the same time as the first set (I now use this magnet as a sample), and it shows no sign of any curling, bubbling or deformation. Of course, it has not been exposed to the elements.

Anybody ever seen or had a problem like this before? It looks to me like they like they were exposed to some type of heat while on the truck.

I appreciate any type of insight.

.

 

[Solventinkjet]

That looks like improper storage to me. Whether at your shop or the dealer who sold it to you, to me it looks like the roll was stored on it's side with no support and due to the weight of the roll it has deformed. Just my first impression.

Edit: The guys with more experience are saying heat.

 

[Bigdawg]

First of all - have to say this. Always round your corners on magnets! Now that's out of the way...

It's the heat - black on black absorbing the sun all day, every day. I would be willing to bet if this was black on white instead of a black background, that you would not be having this problem. I see this every once in a while down here in Florida.

 

[flyplainsdrifta]

yeahh thats definitely heat. i do direct print magnet and i remember when trying to get the curing and heating right seeing this kind of thing. id say they probably took them off of the car and left them in the car in direct sun. have you guys had any really hot days recently?

 

[Billct2]

I also think it's heat.

 

[Phenex]

Thanks for the replies.

A couple of comments to the replies:

VanderJ - The rolls of magnetic material at the shop are stored on end, when received from the supplier they were in a box with the normal standoffs. When I cut them from the roll, I did not see any deformation. Still a possibility.

Bigdawg - Do you have a preferred tool to round the corners?

flyplainsdrifta - Actually yes. While the Chicago area is not known for heat in the spring, we have had a few hot days.

What are your thoughts on the possibility that running them through the carwash could do this? I'm also thinking about a reverse print, black on white. Hoping that might mitigate this.

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate the feedback.

 

[2B]

We had issues with Magnum Magnetics and changed to CarSafe brand.
All of the issues stopped

looking at the photos, agree that the full black on black caused it to get too hot.
would also be willing to bet there was moisture between the magnetic sheet and the truck

 

[Bigdawg]

We have one of these... Grimco | Desktop Corner Cutter - Standard CR-20

But, in a previous life with considerably less money to spend at the shop we used a scrapbooking corner rounder from the craft department at Michaels.

 

[Phenex]

We have one of these... Grimco | Desktop Corner Cutter - Standard CR-20

But, in a previous life with considerably less money to spend at the shop we used a scrapbooking corner rounder from the craft department at Michaels.

Not to derail my own thread - Thanks.

I was looking at this too - Xpert Sign Tools | Xpert Notcher & Hole Punch, Of course, you need a press to go with it. Glad to know short term, I can raid my wife's crafting tools!

 

[2B]

for rounding the corners,
we have the Xpert Contour Rounder but have found that a handheld is easier to use with magnets

here is close to what we use for magnets
https://www.amazon.com/10mm-Radius-...atcorr&keywords=corner+rounder+10mm+hand+held

 

[Sign Works]

I've produced magnetic signs using only Magnum material for over 25 years using cut vinyls, paints and thermal resin digital prints. Never experienced a single problem until applying solvent inkjet digital prints, don't know exactly what causes the failures but they persist no matter what is tried to alleviate them. Solvent inkjet digital prints on magnetic material just seems to be a recipe for disaster.

 

[TimToad]

One of our clients is the ride support manager for a professional women's cycling team sponsored by an energy bar company. They travel the globe racing. We did several dark background magnetic signs on the Magnum brand material on our flatbed printer and a similar failure occurred shortly after producing them. We asked where they went and what kind of vehicles they went on.

Boom! Race was in the Middle East over the span of a week and the rented support vehicles were wait for it, BLACK. Daytime temps were over 100 every day. These women are mostly Olympians and obviously really bad ass if they are out racing in those kinds of conditions.

 

[flyplainsdrifta]

Thanks for the replies.

A couple of comments to the replies:

VanderJ - The rolls of magnetic material at the shop are stored on end, when received from the supplier they were in a box with the normal standoffs. When I cut them from the roll, I did not see any deformation. Still a possibility.

Bigdawg - Do you have a preferred tool to round the corners?

flyplainsdrifta - Actually yes. While the Chicago area is not known for heat in the spring, we have had a few hot days.

What are your thoughts on the possibility that running them through the carwash could do this? I'm also thinking about a reverse print, black on white. Hoping that might mitigate this.

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate the feedback.

yeah, if you're using the magnum mag with the vinyl overlay, the heat will cause the vinyl to warp and seemingly separate from the magnet. haven't seen it in the field myself, but like i said, id know that anywhere from the hour i spent fine-tuning the heat settings to make it actually run thru my printer smoothly.

 

[Phenex]

yeah, if you're using the magnum mag with the vinyl overlay, the heat will cause the vinyl to warp and seemingly separate from the magnet. haven't seen it in the field myself, but like i said, id know that anywhere from the hour i spent fine-tuning the heat settings to make it actually run thru my printer smoothly.

Just to be clear, the vinyl never separated. It is still firmly attached to the magnet.

 

[flyplainsdrifta]

what i am referring to is the overlay that magnum puts on to it so you have a white, smooth surface and not just a magnet to mount/print to. some of my earlier attempts at the heat testing almost turned the white coating into a bubbled skin that moved independently of the magnet underneath. weird stuff. i assume that case is obviously much worse than yours but like i said earlier, that looks like heat warp, just not as bad as i have seen.

 

[TammieH]

That was on the tailgate of a Ford pickup with the 1" beauty/contour lines...a magnet needs to be applied to a flat/near flat surface

It appears the magnet is getting hot and trying to suck down into the valleys

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/12/Picture-64.png

 

[Phenex]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their insight and help!

 

[OceanShoreGraphics]

Before I started getting big into printed graphics, I had some trouble with magnets bubbling, warping, pulling the corners in if covered with a piece of solid black or really dark vinyl. My solution was to cut the vinyl that was to be the background a bit oversize, then let it sit on a table out in direct sunlight for a day. Took most of the shrink out of it and solved the problem. The same could be done with the printed vinyl also if it has a dark enough background where you feel it may shrink. The last magnets I did that needed a solid black background and were getting cut vinyl, I used a can of black Vinyl and Fabric spray paint to coat them. Worked like a charm. Still looking good after a few years too. It's actually a design that very few sane people would have done with cut vinyl, but I had my reasons, lol.

 

[Darryn]

Just a final note, although I think it's pretty clear from the responses...it looks like heat and most likely some moisture. We have portable signs with black powdercoated metal faces, and we find quite often that the vinyl faced magnet bubbles on larger pieces. Not sure who makes the magnet, but it seems like moisture seeping in over time gets trapped, heats up, and deforms it.

Best Regards,
Darryn