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Managing material problems

Discussion in 'General Signmaking Topics' started by bigben, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. bigben

    bigben Very Active Member

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    So we installed a dry erase film on a painted drywall for a customer. We make 10 ''board'' like this. As usual, we have tested the paint before the installation and everything is good. The paint have been done for over 60 days now. After few weeks, there is large bubbles that appear. The material have a replaceable adhesive. So I just pull the material and install it again. Everything is fine. Few days later, somme of the bubbles come again.

    I call the manufacturer rep and like any manufacturers they blame the paint (I've installed murals and other vinyl on the same paint without any problems). They also said because it's a 6 story building and the customer is at the 5 floor, the walls could move causing this. They suggest me to go with their permanent acrylic adhesive and everything should be fine.

    I have no problem to redo the job and use the permanent version of the material (all at my own expense). When I pulled the first film, there was some paint that came off with it (6in X 6in patch at some places). I told the customer that since the manufacturer don't back me up on this, I will pay for the new material and install. But they will have to take care of the re-paint.

    The customer says he do not have to pay for the paint, I should pay it. I told him if I follow the the manufacturer, the paint is the problem and they don't give any warranty for this.

    So I will go there this week and remove the current material. I will try a small piece on a part that have paint off to see if it show up through the material (the material is a 6mil thick very rigid). If not, I plan to just re-install over the same area without painting it.

    Otherwise, should I pay a painter for the touchup or do it myself?

    How would you manage this?
     
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  2. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    I would not put the vinyl on painted drywall. Bound to fail.

    Put the dry erase on some kind of panel (like ACM) and mount it to the wall.
     
  3. bigben

    bigben Very Active Member

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    We've done over 30k square feet of installs in the past two years with this material with only maybe 20 of them with problems. We also do alot more vinyl murals without any problem (except with phototex). So vinyl + painted drywall is not an usual problem for us. Also, laminate the material on acm would be more expensive than buy a regular porcelain board and we usually make board that are 10 to 25 feet long without any seams. I would not work with a rigid surface.

    In this particular post, I'm asking if the removed patch of paint do not show through the material, do I just put the new film over it? Should I be safe and ask to repaint the surfaces and should it be at my own expense? I'm paying the new material + install, I think the customer could take care of the paint?
     
  4. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    If the new material covers the paint issue and you can't see it, I would just do that. Also, we have had issues where paint comes off when removing wall graphics and 99% of the time it's because the painter didn't prime the wall properly. I had one large wall graphic where we pulled it off and it perfectly pulled the paint off the drywall tape only because the painter didn't wipe the drywall dust off the wall before painting and they didn't prime.
     
  5. bigben

    bigben Very Active Member

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    I've had similar results when I've made a paint test at one customer. Did you ever had a situation similar than mine and you had to redo a job and the paint came off?
     
  6. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Over the years we've had so many variations of this, we simply try not to adhere anything to a wall, without physical fasteners. Some walls were painted a week before and others a year before with some 5 years before. It all depends on the paint they used, not to mention if it was professionally painted..... the painters might've taken some of their own shortcuts. When painting professionals paint walls of large areas, they will box their paint to ensure no paint variations, plus when they cut the paint, it won't show up either. However, cutting the paint will change the whole recipe and durability overall of the finished product. Bubbles, lifting(curling) and premature failure is many times the result of the paint and no vinyl manufacturer will stand behind their product when not properly used.

    You're probably gonna hafta eat painting the wall over again, if you didn't stipulate that in the beginning. All of our quotes will carry a line item, that if any of the many possible failures occur, we will not be responsible for refinishing or repainting the walls. The owner/tenants must do that.

    We had one, where the signs started oozing around and off the one wall of a building. This wall faced the morning and afternoon sun and it cooked down there. This was in Maryland and they wanted us to replace the signs for free and re-do the wall. The wall was about 500' long and 17' tall. and about a 5 hour trip one way. Nothing else in the whole store went bad, just this front wall. Luckily, the store wasn't due to open for another 2 or 3 weeks, so I went down to investigate. After literally,100's and 100's of these signs in all their other stores.... this store had a failure, but on one wall. So, I removed one of our signs and it was like a liquid mess back there..... exactly the outline of the sign hanging there. So, I did another one and the same thing. Our lift was 19', plus with us in it, another 6', so I went to the top and pulled a wall panel off. Turned out, the company who was renovating the store... building-wise didn't insulate the front wall form 9' up. They thought they'd save on insulation, time and whatnot and skip it. They thought with it being an air controlled temperature store, it wouldn't matter that high up, as heat rises. Our signs were around 14'. Between no installation and our signs they cooked back there and created so much condensation, the signs started sliding off the wall. I took pictures of everything with a lengthy explanation and guess who hadda pay for everything, including new signs and an extra trip to go down and instal them ?? Not this guy.

    We've also seen the painters boxing their paint while we were at other stores. They think they're sly, and while the store people don't know what's going on, their thinking is, if they can save 1/2 to 3/4's of a gallon on every 5 gallon pail, they're saving a lotta money. These stores are generally about 225k to 250k sq ft, so that's a lotta saved paint, not to mention insulation for the other guys.
     
  7. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    Arkansas
    Do they turn the AC off over the weekends?
    I had a set of 4 murals on phototex in an office building go up in August, and after thanksgiving break they called about bubbles. I just readhered everything when I couldn't find an issue, and when this happened again after Christmas, I found out they close their offices for a week during both holidays and turn the heat down.
     
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