• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

Manually Laminating Vehicle Wraps... Is it possible to master?

140K

140K

New Member
First post here... I've learned so much from this community already... thank you all.

We're trying to do our first vehicle wrap and so far it's been VERY expensive. :) I've ruined at least (at least) 200 sf of #3M IJ180 and the 8518 Overlam... ouch.

After putting out the money for the new printer (HP Latex 110) and the Retail space with on-site install space, and the first rolls of material I really didn't feel like we could go with the laminator off the bat too. So after watching YouTube enough, I bought a Big Squeegee 56".

The BS works great for paper backed stuff, but I'm having so much trouble with thin backing and high backing removal force required with the 3M 8518. The BS catches, hangs, leaves me with lines of bubbles, wrinkles, a mess. I don't know why it would be different from one day to the next, but I've had a much harder time today than yesterday. So half the truck got done yesterday.... all day today trying to get the other half done. No joy.

My question... Is it possible to reliably laminate 3M 8518 Gloss Laminate with any method other than a laminating machine? I'm open to methods other than the Big Squeegee...

Thanks to all for your help. My 17 year old son and I are excited about this new venture, but I'm really feeling stressed about purchasing another big item before we even get rolling.

(FYI - Florida... no large enough AC space to work so we're trying to work in the install area which is almost 90 degrees)
 
Speedsterbeast

Speedsterbeast

New Member
Prepare for a backlash here my friend. But all I have to say is that would you think it odd for a new mechanic to ask if they could get away with rebuilding an engine without buying a torque wrench? That is what you are asking. The BS is a great tool, but for the cost of one wrap, you can buy a proper laminator.
 
140K

140K

New Member
Speedsterbeast said:
Prepare for a backlash here my friend. But all I have to say is that would you think it odd for a new mechanic to ask if they could get away with rebuilding an engine without buying a torque wrench? That is what you are asking. The BS is a great tool, but for the cost of one wrap, you can buy a proper laminator.
Click to expand...

Hi.. thanks for your reply and yes, I would find that odd. However I'm asking in the very place I learned about the Big Squeegee to begin with, so hopefully there are some masters out there. I guess the difference I'm seeing is compared to the torque wrench analogy is that if it weren't for the particular backing of the 8518 I think I would be doing fine. I can run large sheets of vinyl with the big squeegee easily. I've done quite a bit with it and I'm glad I have it. It's a great tool. I was just HOPING I could do it without the investment.

Of course I thought the investment was a minimum of $5000 because a salesman told me the only lower cost option was Daige Laminator which he said was not worth buying... I've since seen others and I'm assuming I will need to buy one. Just trying hard not to because of the huge investment already made.

At least I'm not working out of my garage... I wouldn't want to be that guy... especially without a torque wrench. :)

Edit: Not that I really think there's anything wrong with professional home based or mobile businesses... I just have read lots here about those guys driving prices down and since I really hope for experienced guidance here, I'm just trying to say I'm an experienced professional business owner. Not a guy with a truck and a business card.
 
N

NateF

New Member
We bought our first Roland 1 1/2 years ago and I didn't feel I had room (or money, I guess) for a laminator. Though I did build a nice 5' x 9' work table. The big squeegee was the first thing we tried - it did a horrible job of laminating. I spoke to Dale a couple times and he did his best to help. But in the end I came to the conclusion that the big squeegee just isn't a laminator. The big squeegee is a great tool - we use it constantly for mounting and it's worth every penny just for that purpose.

We finally learned to wet laminate. We would tape the print to the table with masking tape (to keep moisture from getting to the backing paper) and basically hinge the laminate over the print. Two people, good felt-covered squeegees, and lots of application fluid. Once we got the hang of it, it worked pretty well for us for a little over a year. But when we do a wrap (we average about one a month), I take it to another local shop and pay him to run my media through his laminator. It's just not worth the time and headache to try to do something that large without a laminator.

Though, after a year and a half of wet laminating, I finally made room and bought a laminator. The busier we got, the more I realized how valuable a piece of equipment a laminator is. If I was doing it again and could find a laminator in the $5k range, I would have bought it in the first place when I bought the printer. But if you're doing smaller stuff and your volume isn't there yet, you can get by hand-laminating for a while.
 
140K

140K

New Member
NateF said:
We bought our first Roland 1 1/2 years ago and I didn't feel I had room (or money, I guess) for a laminator. Though I did build a nice 5' x 9' work table. The big squeegee was the first thing we tried - it did a horrible job of laminating. I spoke to Dale a couple times and he did his best to help. But in the end I came to the conclusion that the big squeegee just isn't a laminator. The big squeegee is a great tool - we use it constantly for mounting and it's worth every penny just for that purpose.

We finally learned to wet laminate. We would tape the print to the table with masking tape (to keep moisture from getting to the backing paper) and basically hinge the laminate over the print. Two people, good felt-covered squeegees, and lots of application fluid. Once we got the hang of it, it worked pretty well for us for a little over a year. But when we do a wrap (we average about one a month), I take it to another local shop and pay him to run my media through his laminator. It's just not worth the time and headache to try to do something that large without a laminator.

Though, after a year and a half of wet laminating, I finally made room and bought a laminator. The busier we got, the more I realized how valuable a piece of equipment a laminator is. If I was doing it again and could find a laminator in the $5k range, I would have bought it in the first place when I bought the printer. But if you're doing smaller stuff and your volume isn't there yet, you can get by hand-laminating for a while.
Click to expand...

Thanks NateF! That sounds a whole lot like my experience so far. I even spoke with Dale today myself and he was very helpful, but couldn't actually tell me the secret sauce solution. I talked to 3M (who I also talked to before going this route - at which time they said "yes, you can apply the laminate by hand") today they told me that the required tension to remove the backing from the 8518 was very difficult to do by hand. They mentioned that water getting to the edge made wet laminating a problem, but it sounds like you got around that.

I do know of a local shop that will laminate for me, but it's not very close (45 minutes) and he's at about $1.00 a square foot which seems like a lot. I might ask around and see if I can find someone else. I need to do something tomorrow because I'm sitting here with half a truck done in my shop! (the first day went better... not sure why today just couldn't get a good lamination).

It's all a matter of money. If money were no object, sure thing... give me the best one brand new, set it up and let's go!

I'm thinking of a used purchase. I see a couple of good ones. A Royal Sovereign 65" and a US Tech (Worf) that I still need to research a little. I just have a picture of the model number.

I wonder if I should try the wet lamination method to finish the truck. I'm just so sick about all the wasted material so far. I read here that 3M stands for 3 times the money... I'm feeling it on the trailer full of waste!
 
140K

140K

New Member
NateF said:
We bought our first Roland 1 1/2 years ago and I didn't feel I had room (or money, I guess) for a laminator....
Click to expand...

By the way, it's encouraging to hear that 1.5 years later you're growing and doing well and that business is good. It seems like lots of companies in the field do fairly well if they have good business acumen and hard work. You must have both!
 
GAC05

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
Once this wrap crisis is over take a look at one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/63-1600mm-M...nating-Machine-With-Stand-Pedal-/261817565309

I've laminated up to 40ft long panels - lots of anxiety but no crash and burn
With just a little practice you can laminate with confidence on the shorter stuff.
Once you save enough to get a nice laminator you can use this to mount vinyl on panels (aluminum / sheet metal) without worrying about ruining your new 5-7k laminator.
Gotta use those SK tools until you can afford the Snap-On brand.


wayne k
guam usa
 
GAC05

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
If it is one of the cheap ones I'd get a new one. If you are looking at a mid to expensive used one you need to see it demo'd before you put money down on it.


wayne k
guam usa
 
Pat Whatley

Pat Whatley

New Member
140K said:
I do know of a local shop that will laminate for me, but it's not very close (45 minutes) and he's at about $1.00 a square foot which seems like a lot.
Click to expand...

How much has that 200 sq ft of material in the trash cost you? I wouldn't want to pay it but sometimes you're better off sharing the profits to get the job done before you screw up so much there's no profit left.
 
rjssigns

rjssigns

Active Member
Laminating a buck a square foot for 8518 is cheap. I'd pay that all day long so I didn't have to laminate.

May want to check into USTech laminators. A few members have them and are quite pleased with their performance.
 
3

31legen

New Member
Good used laminators

There are lots of good used laminators out there for sale if you search. I bought a used 54 base in near mint condition for 1800 bucks a little over a year ago. The daige laminators will do the job but the tracking sucks on them.
 
pjfmeister

pjfmeister

New Member
We wet laminated for years before we purchased our first laminator. Its not as easy as it sounds if you leave any fluid behind it ruins the job. You also have to deal with lots of liquid

To laminate long 15-20+ foot runs of 54" prints with a big squeegee is very difficult...in order to not get the stop lines of silvering or bubbles you are talking about is very difficult.
Big squeegee is great for what it is. I don't think it is really intended to replace a laminator but instead as its own specialty tool. We have probably laminated more yards with the big squeegee than with the machine....but the jobs we do on a laminator would be extremely difficult if not impossible with a big squeegee
 
jfiscus

jfiscus

Rap Master
At the first sign company I worked for we only had a Roland Sp540v for print/cut.
If we were laminating in-house it was spray lam (frog juice), but that only works for "flat" decals; not wraps.
When we needed something laminated (like a wrap) we found a couple local wholesalers who would laminate for us.
 
O

oksigns

New Member
140K said:
Thanks Wayne... I was looking at those on eBay earlier and wondering... good to hear from someone who's used one.

Any thoughts on buying used laminators? Do these things tend to run forever or is it very possible to buy one that's just a 1000lb paper weight?
Click to expand...

I would never imagine NOT owning one with the work I do. In my production setting, I wouldn't want to inject any more risk than what already exists in these processes. You will always want to apply the right amount of pressure and it shouldn't feel like a hiking expedition either.

Besides, most laminators can be used to apply media to rigid substrates making that process easier if you do not own a UV printer.
 
140K

140K

New Member
Thanks for all the input... I appreciate the time it takes to help me out.

Here's an update... I took the second half of the wrap (the one that two copies now occupy the dumpster) to the local laminator shop. I was surprised to find that this was a full-on pure lamination operation. I dropped off my print and my roll of 8518 and the plan is I can come back tomorrow and pick it all up done, along with what's left of my roll. I talked to a friend who has used the same shop for years so I think that's going to be fine. I'll find out tomorrow. I think the cost (me providing all the materials) is going to be less than the $1.00 per square foot I expected, so we'll see.

That might just be the best option for us for awhile so we can focus on all of the other aspects of getting the business ramped up. Our own marketing, sales processes & systems, design processes, pricing, and installation skills and technique (we're doing pretty well on that front, the work we've done has been good but still plenty of room to improve).

I did go look at a used US Tech VT-600 that didn't "look" too bad, but after driving 90 miles to see it, the seller unfortunately couldn't locate the power cord, which appears to have been cut off... it wasn't an experienced seller who knew no more about the machine than me so I passed, even though I think I could have picked it up pretty cheap.

The US Tech distributor is only an hour drive away from me, so that seems like a good choice and I've read lots about it here in the forums.
 
140K

140K

New Member
Pat Whatley said:
How much has that 200 sq ft of material in the trash cost you? I wouldn't want to pay it but sometimes you're better off sharing the profits to get the job done before you screw up so much there's no profit left.
Click to expand...

No doubt about it. And the laminator shop I dropped off at today was 100% just that, which was reassuring. If it wasn't for the delay, my problem would be totally solved. I just wanted the option to serve clients instantly or repair a mistake immediately.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top