Matthews Paint

[Scott H]

Anybody know where I can get a small amount of Matthews 41 342SP Brushed Aluminum paint? I have a small directional sign to paint, maybe 6 sq ft. I can buy a gallon for about $190, but don't know if / when I will ever use it again. Both NGlantz and TubeLite only sell gallons.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Gemini uses Matthew's paint, would you be able to order the part already cut and painted from them?

 

[Scott H]

Gemini uses Matthew's paint, would you be able to order the part already cut and painted from them?

It's an existing directional sign that we are repainting and applying new vinyl lettering.

 

[Zendavor Signs]

It's an existing directional sign that we are repainting and applying new vinyl lettering.

Do you have a Matthew's swatch book? Just pick a metallic silver that's close and get a custom quart

 

[Robert Armerding]

Anybody know where I can get a small amount of Matthews 41 342SP Brushed Aluminum paint? I have a small directional sign to paint, maybe 6 sq ft. I can buy a gallon for about $190, but don't know if / when I will ever use it again. Both NGlantz and TubeLite only sell gallons.

Scott H Here is an out of the box idea: Ask your sales rep from either NGlantz or TubeLite if they will tell you the name of any of their customers who have ordered the gallon. Then, contact that buyer and ask if they would be willing to sell you a small amount. Or, if you could farm out the work to them. Just out of the box ideas.
Plan B, contact the Matthews rep to see if he knows anyone who buys that paint. If he knows, ask him to connect you. If he does not know, ask him to inquiry of his customer service department to see if they can give him buyers.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

This! Plan B that Robert suggests is your best option. I maintain a good working relationship with another shop that stocks and uses a lot of Matthews paints. Most of the time when I need something painted with Matthews, they have some need from me. Makes for a nice "quid pro quo".

 

[Scott H]

Thanks for the replies.

I have asked one of our local sign fabricators and they didn't have any. I need to find a few others and check with them.

I failed to mention that our customer said that it did not have to be Matthews specifically, they just used that as their standard for appearance. Are there any other manufacturers that do a metalic silver that I should check with?

We are pretty new to this aspect of sign work, so I feel pretty ignorant. Most of our painting has been poles or pylons in standard bronze and have used SW DTM with good results.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Go to an auto paint house and get some. Ppg, axalta, sherwin williams automotive, some napas. Finishmaster is a big distributor but it's generally a fragmented market.

 

[karst41]

Go to an auto paint house and get some. Ppg, axalta, sherwin williams automotive, some napas. Finishmaster is a big distributor but it's generally a fragmented market.

That is a great idea. Could even buy a pint!

 

[signbrad]

It is good to cultivate working relationships with other shops. If I needed a half-pint of Matthews Brushed Aluminum, I can think of four other shops that I would feel comfortable asking for a quantity of paint as a favor. You'll need catalyst and reducer, too. And if you want to apply vinyl the next day, you really should add a small amount of accelerator (otherwise, wait 72 hours, the recommended cure time before applying vinyl, per Matthews application guidelines).
Of course, we have had a mixing station for a few years, so this situation would never come up. But we do often do small things for other shops, and a small amount of paint would fall into this category. We have a number of other shops that we provide work for. Depending on which one was asking, my boss might even give the paint to them, thinking he would call in a favor from them sometime in the future.

Back in the day, in many areas, there was much more camaraderie among shops than there seems to be today. Animosity wasn't as common, though there were always a few unfriendlies who were just ignored.

Of course, as Notarealsignguy mentioned, an auto paint supply should be able to match the color. PPG would be my first choice for no other reason than that they own Matthews. They are also the largest paint company in the world, so their resources and capabilities are presumably very good,

Brad in Kansas City

 

[MikePro]

does it HAVE TO be matthews? for something that small, could be worth just getting a spray bomb of acrylic poly satin metallic silver. We stock that matthews color, as it is the base for a LOT of our color formulas, but I've touched up plenty of signs with that finish with those little hobbyist touch-up spray cans from the hardware store.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Is it actually a brushed look or is it just a metallic silver? Coverage isn't usually good and you should shoot whatever color primer they recommend under it, like gray, so you are covering an even surface which helps.

 

[signbrad]

We don't have any real problems using Matthews Brushed Aluminum. I assume that it is the 43412SP color being discussed, a factory pack color that we buy premixed.
It seems to cover well and no under-color is required, though I handle it a little differently from the standard colors, as I do all the metallics.
First, I apply two medium-wet coats, using the appropriate speed reducer, with a flash in between. I then finish off with a third, mistier coat, at an increased distance from the piece. Sometimes when I lay down the two wet coats I can get some mottling, common to metallics. This is the flakes trying to separate and/or float. But the final coat applied slowly on top of the two still-wet coats should yield an even velvety metallic that is not dusty looking or sandpapery to the touch.
Whenever I got runs, it was because I was laying it on too heavy trying to avoid dustiness. Now, I usually slow the reducer mix down a little and don't have my gun as close. A little slower on the gun movement as well, with the fan a little wider. If it's done right, you should get even flake distribution and it should still have a little shine, with no dustiness.

So, not too heavy laying it on, but not too fast of a mix so that it can still "meld" together.

By the way, all three speeds of Matthews reducers, and the retarder, can be intermixed to fine-tune the speed of the mix.

Also, I feel it's important for the metallics to spin on the mixing station a full half hour every morning. If I am going to spray metallics in the afternoon, I will spin the mixing station again for 15 minutes before making the metallics. And all the metallics, both the factory packs and the base colors, should go on a shaker before being put on the mixing station. If you don't shake them first, you will probably find a pile of flake when you get to the bottom of the can, flake that never got stirred into the mix. I expect this settling changes the color slightly and may contribute to a little loss in coverage. The mixing station alone is not adequate for thoroughly mixing the paint when you first get it, especially the metallics.

The Brushed Aluminum color was developed, I believe, to simulate Alcoa's anodic aluminum color, just as the 41313SP Dark Bronze was supposed to mimic Alcoa's Duranodic Bronze (Duranodic was originally owned by Alcoa as a trademark).
Both colors can be mixed from Matthews base colors but are available as factory packs, too, which is convenient. We use both colors extensively.

One more point, and everyone that sprays Matthews already knows this—the paint-to-catalyst ratio must be exact. The addition of the accelerator, if you use it, must be exact, too. You can fudge a little on the reducer content, but not the catalyst or accelerator. I even bought a stand-up test tube at the science store for measuring accelerator in tiny amounts for small batches of paint (sometimes less than 3 ounces of paint for small jobs). The test tube is marked in milliliter gradations.

Now, having said all that about metallics, we do not use the Low VOC line of colors. Their handling characteristics may not be exactly the same.

Brad in Kansas City

 

[Notarealsignguy]

We don't have any real problems using Matthews Brushed Aluminum. I assume that it is the 43412SP color being discussed, a factory pack color that we buy premixed.
It seems to cover well and no under-color is required, though I handle it a little differently from the standard colors, as I do all the metallics.
First, I apply two medium-wet coats, using the appropriate speed reducer, with a flash in between. I then finish off with a third, mistier coat, at an increased distance from the piece. Sometimes when I lay down the two wet coats I can get some mottling, common to metallics. This is the flakes trying to separate and/or float. But the final coat applied slowly on top of the two still-wet coats should yield an even velvety metallic that is not dusty looking or sandpapery to the touch.
Whenever I got runs, it was because I was laying it on too heavy trying to avoid dustiness. Now, I usually slow the reducer mix down a little and don't have my gun as close. A little slower on the gun movement as well, with the fan a little wider. If it's done right, you should get even flake distribution and it should still have a little shine, with no dustiness.

So, not too heavy laying it on, but not too fast of a mix so that it can still "meld" together.

By the way, all three speeds of Matthews reducers, and the retarder, can be intermixed to fine-tune the speed of the mix.

Also, I feel it's important for the metallics to spin on the mixing station a full half hour every morning. If I am going to spray metallics in the afternoon, I will spin the mixing station again for 15 minutes before making the metallics. And all the metallics, both the factory packs and the base colors, should go on a shaker before being put on the mixing station. If you don't shake them first, you will probably find a pile of flake when you get to the bottom of the can, flake that never got stirred into the mix. I expect this settling changes the color slightly and may contribute to a little loss in coverage. The mixing station alone is not adequate for thoroughly mixing the paint when you first get it, especially the metallics.

The Brushed Aluminum color was developed, I believe, to simulate Alcoa's anodic aluminum color, just as the 41313SP Dark Bronze was supposed to mimic Alcoa's Duranodic Bronze (Duranodic was originally owned by Alcoa as a trademark).
Both colors can be mixed from Matthews base colors but are available as factory packs, too, which is convenient. We use both colors extensively.

One more point, and everyone that sprays Matthews already knows this—the paint-to-catalyst ratio must be exact. The addition of the accelerator, if you use it, must be exact, too. You can fudge a little on the reducer content, but not the catalyst or accelerator. I even bought a stand-up test tube at the science store for measuring accelerator in tiny amounts for small batches of paint (sometimes less than 3 ounces of paint for small jobs). The test tube is marked in milliliter gradations.

Now, having said all that about metallics, we do not use the Low VOC line of colors. Their handling characteristics may not be exactly the same.

Brad in Kansas City

Good info. I swirl the cup intermittently as I spray to keep the metallic suspended or use an air agitated pot if using pressure feed. The one thing that I don't like with single stage metallics is that you can't fix them if you get a run like you can a solid.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

If it is a flat sign, it will be cheaper to get a new panel from Gemini than trying to hunt down a small amount of paint, removing the panel and bringing it back to the shop, sanding and prepping, setting up the sprayer, cleaning up, then returning to the site to install the sign.

 

[signbrad]

single stage metallics is that you can't fix them if you get a run like you can a solid.

This I know.