Need Help Mimaki, Rasterlink 6 And Pms Colors!?

[ashleighfiddler]

Hi all!

My shop just got a Mimaki CJV 150-300 with Rasterlink 6. I've done a lot of large format printing on Rolands but this is a new setup for me. My problem is that any PMS colors that are assigned in the artwork do not come out close to the actual colors- they are mostly too dark and dense. I'm having to do a ton of fiddling around with the colors to get them close/acceptable. The rep said it's because Pantone doesn't have a contract with Mimaki and even though the swatches show up and are read in raster link it doesn't mean it will output them correctly. I try different media profiles through the "check matching of device profiles" command - some are closer than others but none are close enough to be acceptable.

The artwork is created in CMYK mode, with spot colors, in Illustrator 15.3 and exported as EPS files.

This is crazy! Has anyone else had this issue, and developed any workarounds or solutions? This printer is awesome otherwise, so this very important issue is baffling.

 

[Solventinkjet]

On any printer you ever use, colors will not come out exactly how you want them to unless you create your own profiles. It's as simple as that. This is a common issue in the sign industry. Boxed profiles are good enough to get you started making signs but if you want to be hitting exact colors that are standardized by a 3rd party and created using a completely different system than CMYK, profiling is the only way. There are way too many factors that change between print shops, ink type, environment, printer brand, head type etc to have color be perfect out of the box every single time. It's just not in the cards.

 

[ashleighfiddler]

How would you go about starting that process? Can you give me any specific direction for this machine/setup? I understand the complexity and various factors that go into color reproduction.

I've been doing signs and digital printing for about 5 years, and I found that Roland had pretty accurate color reproduction with only a adjustment. It was not gallery perfect but acceptable most of the time. That's all i'm shooting for here.

I was hoping for a specific answer from someone who has had experience with this particular setup and issue.

 

[Solventinkjet]

How would you go about starting that process? Can you give me any specific direction for this machine/setup? I understand the complexity and various factors that go into color reproduction.

I've been doing signs and digital printing for about 5 years, and I found that Roland had pretty accurate color reproduction with only a adjustment. It was not gallery perfect but acceptable most of the time. That's all i'm shooting for here.

I was hoping for a specific answer from someone who has had experience with this particular setup and issue.

Roland does seem to be better out of the box in my experience when it comes to color.

I would call the manufacturer of your vinyl and ask them if they have any new profiles for that machine and ink type. That should at least get you closer. A lot of times the boxed profiles are old profiles that they used on older models and just update the file instead of making new profiles. The manufacturer should have more up to date ones.

Other than that, Correct Color is a merchant member on sign101 and they offer a color profiling service. I have seen people buy the photo spectrometer and do it themselves but there is a pretty steep learning curve. Making the profile is pretty straight forward. Making a profile that works correctly takes a little know how.

 

[wctsigns]

I have had a mimacki for about 3 years and at first the colours were fine but at some point there was a shift. Now I use my pantone guide a lot and typically 2 or 3 shades lighter gives me the exact colour. Most of the time if I am trying to get exact I run a sample at 10% of the original size to make sure the colours are correct when I need to be bang on.

Dont bother with vinyl profiles it doesn't make a difference and is a waste of time. Also the dealer will give you a lot of help.

 

[Solventinkjet]

I have had a mimacki for about 3 years and at first the colours were fine but at some point there was a shift. Now I use my pantone guide a lot and typically 2 or 3 shades lighter gives me the exact colour. Most of the time if I am trying to get exact I run a sample at 10% of the original size to make sure the colours are correct when I need to be bang on.

Dont bother with vinyl profiles it doesn't make a difference and is a waste of time. Also the dealer will give you a lot of help.

It sounds like you have a good workaround but if you had your machine professionally profiled, you wouldn't have to do any of that. You could just pick a color and it would print correctly every time. Either way, if it works, it works.

 

[ashleighfiddler]

The Arlon vinyl I'm using does not have any profiles available for this printer/rip combo. the vinyl profile causes the color to shift a little but not enough to make a difference. I've noticed that assigning a color a shade or 2 lighter tends to give good results too. What WTCsigns said is basically how i've been doing every job, adjusting the ink limits within Rasterlink, and adjusting colors in illustrator and doing tiny test prints. I just watched this video

on assigning LAB values to incoming pantone colors in RL6 but it's still not hitting them perfectly. Yellow/red/orange seems to be more off, more dingy, than the cooler colors.

 

[Correct Color]

How would you go about starting that process? Can you give me any specific direction for this machine/setup?

The problem is you've basically got two things working against you. First is that unless you have the ridiculously overpriced profiling module, it's not possible to make profiles in Rasterlink at all. And note that this is different from Versaworks, which can be used to make machine states but needs a third party application to make ICC profiles. In Rasterlink, without the module, it's not possible to make profiles at all.

Second problem is that -- as has been pointed out, and again unlike Roland with Versaworks -- Mimaki didn't pony up the license fees to Pantone, so either you're going to have to do some sort of workaround, like the little video fiddler showed, or your file is going to print using what's called the "alternate color" in the Postscript description (this is true in an .eps or a .pdf.)

It's the alternate color that the guy in the video is replacing, although I don't think he exactly knows that. However, what he's doing will work, as far as sending the same L*a*b* call to the printer as you would if you had an actual Pantone library.

However, sending the right L*a*b* value is only going to work exactly if your profiles describe how your printer actually prints in whatever condition you're using. However much they (your profiles) are off from how your printer actually prints, then your printed results will be off by that amount as well. And since there's no way to make custom profiles in Rasterlink, unless you want to buy their module, which for the same money you could come damn close to real live robust RIP, then there's no way to get to where you need to be.

Bottom line, honestly, is if you're serious, first item on the agenda is a new RIP. Until you take that step, anything you try is going to require some sort of workaround, somewhere.

 

[ashleighfiddler]

The problem is you've basically got two things working against you. First is that unless you have the ridiculously overpriced profiling module, it's not possible to make profiles in Rasterlink at all. And note that this is different from Versaworks, which can be used to make machine states but needs a third party application to make ICC profiles. In Rasterlink, without the module, it's not possible to make profiles at all.

Second problem is that -- as has been pointed out, and again unlike Roland with Versaworks -- Mimaki didn't pony up the license fees to Pantone, so either you're going to have to do some sort of workaround, like the little video fiddler showed, or your file is going to print using what's called the "alternate color" in the Postscript description (this is true in an .eps or a .pdf.)

It's the alternate color that the guy in the video is replacing, although I don't think he exactly knows that. However, what he's doing will work, as far as sending the same L*a*b* call to the printer as you would if you had an actual Pantone library.

However, sending the right L*a*b* value is only going to work exactly if your profiles describe how your printer actually prints in whatever condition you're using. However much they (your profiles) are off from how your printer actually prints, then your printed results will be off by that amount as well. And since there's no way to make custom profiles in Rasterlink, unless you want to buy their module, which for the same money you could come damn close to real live robust RIP, then there's no way to get to where you need to be.

Bottom line, honestly, is if you're serious, first item on the agenda is a new RIP. Until you take that step, anything you try is going to require some sort of workaround, somewhere.

 

[ashleighfiddler]

Sorry Not sure why i posted that... anyway I see you're in Austin too! Cool! Thanks for the clarification/education on this issue. So i guess for the time being i'm just looking for a good workaround. I'd love to hear from anyone else that has this same issue, if you've found any out of the box solutions. Thanks all for your input!

 

[97GTB]

Mimaki did stump up for Pantone license, RLP6 has the Pantone Solid coated and uncoated V3 swatch table. Go into Tools > Colour Collection and its in there turn them on it converts the pantone to a defined LAB value

 

[wctsigns]

It sounds like you have a good workaround but if you had your machine professionally profiled, you wouldn't have to do any of that. You could just pick a color and it would print correctly every time. Either way, if it works, it works.

We came up with this work around from the tech early after getting the machine. I see some good info posted in this thread and I am going to try these things as well. If it saves me fiddling around I call that a win!

 

[paperstrategies]

Mimaki did stump up for Pantone license, RLP6 has the Pantone Solid coated and uncoated V3 swatch table. Go into Tools > Colour Collection and its in there turn them on it converts the pantone to a defined LAB value

Played around with this. Without being able to calibrate color, this does not print accurate colors. However, the color collections you can create yourself allow you to define the LAB values of the Pantone color you're trying to print. This means that after you play around with getting the right color in LAB , you can save the value as the desired Pantone. Then when when you have to print the color again, it will have been saved. So you'll only have to match the color the hard way once.

 

[gsxrsvd]

The Arlon vinyl I'm using does not have any profiles available for this printer/rip combo. the vinyl profile causes the color to shift a little but not enough to make a difference. I've noticed that assigning a color a shade or 2 lighter tends to give good results too. What WTCsigns said is basically how i've been doing every job, adjusting the ink limits within Rasterlink, and adjusting colors in illustrator and doing tiny test prints. I just watched this video

on assigning LAB values to incoming pantone colors in RL6 but it's still not hitting them perfectly. Yellow/red/orange seems to be more off, more dingy, than the cooler colors.

Thank you for this info! I have the same problems and no one around to help (dealer included). Awesome!

 

[bteifeld]

One other thing that may be of help is a piece of software from Xrite/Pantone known as Pantone Color Manager. This software can export files of LAB values for any of the Pantone palettes. Those files(CGATS, CXF3) can be imported as swatches in many RIPs, and also into Adobe software. As others have said, proper profiles and overall good color management practices are also essential.